Mark Szabo Podcast Transcription
Summary
In this video I interview Dr. Mark Szabo who had a previous video with the me a few years back. In the original video, we talked about Mark's struggles with weight and his journey towards a carnivore diet. In this update video, Mark shares that he has lost 120 pounds since he started the carnivore diet and has seen significant improvements in his health and well-being. He talks about his experiences with the diet, including his challenges and successes.
Mark became carnivore because he realized he always preferred meat and felt better when he didn't eat other foods that didn't work for him. When he first met Stephen three years ago, he struggled with constantly eating and cravings for sugary and floury foods. He didn't think he could go a day without a lot of eating. However, now that Mark is eating carnivore, he has been able to stick to one meal a day and experiences mental clarity, even moods, and more energy along with the fantastic loss of body fat.
Transcription
U1
0:00
Hi there and welcome to another great interview. Today I've got the wonderful doctor Mark saver, and I'm going to ask Mark the same question I ask absolutely everybody. And that is hey Mark, why did you become carnivore?
U2
0:11
That is a great question. I think, uh, you know what? I think I always was. I just didn't realize it. I think I always was carnivore, but I would cover it up with, um, other stuff that, uh, didn't really work for me. So I think as I look back on it, you know, the times when I would try just to have meat for a period of time, I loved it, just fantastic. And then I would fall back into the other way. So I think that's why I became carnivore, because I actually already was. 1s That's a
U1
0:43
brilliant answer. Um, but we met, I don't know, maybe three years ago when you book me to be your coach. Something like that. Uh, and you was having some issues, some health issues, and you weren't predominantly eating carnivore was. You were eating ever such a lot of other stuff. So, uh, what were those issues when we first met?
U2
1:03
Yeah, for me, I had a really strong, um, and probably still with a strong reaction to sugar, uh, and flour, um, where it would just set off these cravings, uh, whenever I would have them. Uh, and it would just almost, you know, become obsessive with it because I thought once I have this stuff now, I gotta have some more. Gotta have some more. Um, and so I just found that it just sort of, um. Became really a big part of my life, my identity. Uh, the fact that I would use that sort of food to make myself feel better. And so that was probably the biggest challenge. Not everybody experiences that, um, obviously, but I certainly did. And so I found that, um, my part of my biggest challenge, health wise and weight wise, was just that reaction that I got to those two white powder substances.
U1
2:03
Yes. So 1s the weight was that, um, was that a lot? Was you weighing in? Quite a lot? Always. You just a few pounds away from where you wanted to be.
U2
2:14
Um, I was, uh, at the time I moved here. I was about £280. Uh, I can't convert that into kilograms, uh, these days, but, um, so maybe about £120, uh, bigger than I am right now. 1s Wow.
U1
2:30
It's amazing now. When we first spoke, you told me that you couldn't go a day without eating quite a lot and quite frequently. And we spoke about intermittent fasting and things like that. And I can remember you said there's no way there are people that walk among us, but there's no way I can be one of those. So how's that worked out?
U2
2:54
Well, I failed miserably at upholding that. And I've become one of those people. Uh, that sort of, uh, that I was said didn't really exist. So, um. Yeah. No, I, I've, uh, I've been able to start incorporating that into my life.
U1
3:13
Okay. Now, um, we've kept in contact for a long time. And even now, every day you send me
U2
3:20
how long you fasted for and what you're eating. I'm not charging you for that. Um, so people that. I think I mean it just for the money. I think Mark will vouch for the fact I mean it to get people healthy. Because what? You've been doing that for about a year and a half and your average fasting period. Um,
U1
3:36
and this is someone that used to eat like three times a day. Uh, what would you say your average sort of fast is every day?
U2
3:43
Um, well, these days, in the last, uh, 60 days or so, I changed up my routine, and I went to eating one meal a day. Um, and originally, uh, it was just to, um, just to see if I could do it, but. So now I just. I just eat once a day.
U1
4:02
And do you always feel happy with one meal a day? Do you feel satiated and are you enjoying the food?
U2
4:09
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Uh, and again, I'm not a doctor. Medical doctor. I'm a doctor of environmental design. So take that. And nobody should ever listen to what I say. So let's just preface that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Um, other than my my own experience and the. It doesn't make any sense that I would before I would. You know what I would say? I would eat three meals a day. That's just the big stuff. Like to get between the big meal and the next one, I'd have to, you know, bridge that gap with other stuff just to make it through that or 5 or 6 hours. So it was just constant breathing, constant constant. Um, and uh, you know, mood spikes, um, energy spikes, like, just crazy, crazy sort of roller coaster. And now that I'm eating once a day, it's a completely different experience. I don't think about a food. I don't care about food. I don't, uh, I don't worry about food. I know that I've got, uh, as you like to say, Stephen, I've got a month's worth of lunch strapped to my belly here, so I. I don't need to to worry about that. So it almost takes the, the, the, the sort of not control. Yeah. I guess control of the food had over my life before and it's gone. So now I can worry about other stuff that I have to worry about, but yet the energy is even, uh, moods are even, um, uh, and um, just the sort of mental clarity helps a lot to. 1s It's
U1
5:47
interesting when people want to bring up mental clarity. We always sort of think, what's the word
U2
5:52
we should use?
U1
5:55
Um, which I always think is ironic anyway. I mean, you are such a different person because, you know, honestly, when I met you, you you really didn't believe that you would be this person that you are now. So. What do you think you would say to somebody who was looking for advice and was in your position for, say, four years ago, where they're just grazing all the time, they're eating sugary, flowery things and setting themselves off on cravings? Would you have any advice for them?
U2
6:26
Yeah, I think so because and again, it's hard knocks uh, of, you know, well over 50 years trying to figure this all out. So, um, what I finally sort of landed on are a couple of things that might be, um, might be relevant. The main thing is for me, again, this is my experience, is I had to not be in control of food. Uh, that was number one, because, uh, all evidence would indicate that when I decide what I want to have, when I want to have it. Well, I tell you exactly how that works out £120 later. So, um, I just don't have that capability. I'm good at a lot of things. Being in charge of my own food happens to not be one of those things. And so, you know, the number one thing I would recommend that is, uh, to find someone who is trustworthy, who knows what they're talking about and who is able to help you, sort of be in charge of the food for you or together with you, but you can't do that against me. Uh, on on your own. So, I mean, Stephen, all credit to you for your ability to do that because, um, that enabled me to lean on your understanding. Lean on your experience, lean on your training, uh, and lean on your ongoing support to be able to say, you know what? Uh, I can't do it. But, you know, maybe Steve and I can figure this out together. So I think that was probably the biggest, uh, thing for me. Um, and I think that the the second thing was to realize that it's not really about the food. Uh, there's there's more going on. At least it was for me. So I would eat emotionally. I would eat for lots of different reasons, but it didn't really. It wasn't about food or sustenance. It was about, you know, satisfying some sort of other thing that was missing. So when you when you sort of dial back the food, it's like, uh, I think it was Warren Buffett had the great quote when you when the tide goes out, you can see who's been swimming naked. Right. And so when when the food goes out, all of a sudden you realize, oh, I was covering up all this creepy crawly stuff in my life. And so you got to be ready to just nip those in the bud and deal and deal with that. So. 1s It's going to uncover stuff that you probably don't really, uh, like, or you've been sort of covering up with, with, um, with the food thing, in my experience. Anyway. So, you know, just being ready to understand that that's going to happen. Um, and then I probably the third thing, um, for me was you can't fast intermittently when you're eating carbs. Right. And so it sounds like magic. He's taking off when you're our carnivore and you are adapting to that sort of way of eating. 1s It's like falling off a law, right? It's not hard at all. There's no effort to it. You just eat. When you're going to eat, you eat till you're full. And then I'm good for at least a day. 1s Uh, and so the, the key to, you know, from my experience has been if you're going to have that time when you're not eating, then you got to eat the kind of food that will last and carbs don't last. You know, vegetables don't do anything for you that way. Um, and certainly most of the other food that you're going to have other than, you know, nice, juicy, you know, meat with lots of fat in it to your brain works like, without that, don't even bother because you'll kill yourself like it's it's just not tenable. So I think those three things, um, were sort of the big picture of of what enabled me to start doing that. Yeah
U1
10:16
they're good. Three points. And thank you for the for the compliment. Um, but for those people that can't afford coaching, you know, there's other ways of doing it. Meal plans are for two free meal plans and more websites. So I'm not trying to flog anything here. We're just having a conversation. And for those people that are listening carefully, um, when Mark said you can't fast with carbs. Uh, for some people they can, but it's not easy. And that's the thing. It's much easier when you're eating this way, because carbs tend to drive you to want to eat, to get in an hour, two hours, three hours, whereas eating this way it doesn't drive that hunger the same way. Um, but there there is always the odd person say, well, I can fast, I eat carbs. Um, but I would ask you, are you finding it easy? Are you constantly thinking about food? And this way of eating seems to give you that food freedom that Mark and I have spoken about online because, um, we WhatsApp every day. Basically, that's the accountability side of things. Um, let's do some practicalities then. Uh, you you mentioned your weight. Um, are you at the ideal weight you want to be right
U2
11:21
now? Oh, no. Um, I'm not so but as I mentioned about 60 days ago, actually, right when, when started, I thought, you know what, I want to do some. I'll do something for lent. And so I said, for 40 days I'm going to have, uh, one meal a day. So 40 meals, 40 days, uh, and then sort of, you know, all the things around that to sort of get ready for it. So I had been carnivore long enough to know that, um, I would I was going to have to eat, uh, to your till your full and then maybe just a little bit more and then that lasts. So again, it wasn't it's not a physical sort of, um, challenge once you're used to eating that way. Um, because I've been doing that for just about a year. It's the mental challenge of it is I know where's my where's my teddy bear? Where's my buddy? Where's my, you know, friend that I can just get out to eat. Right. So it's the it's the mental game of saying no, you don't actually need to eat your friend feeling any of that sort of stuff. It's just you're just going to add one meal a day. So then I got into that mode, uh, and then, um, one of the other biggest sort of learnings for me was at the end of lent, uh, the old mark would have said, all right. 1s Back at it. Let's go. Ah, right. Uh, but this. For some reason, I finally figured out. Oh, wait a minute. 1s You just created a new habit. In 40 days. It feels great. The weights coming off. Why would you stop? Like, this actually works. You're enjoying it? It feels good. It's all working for you. Why would you stop that instead of, you know, giving up that particular habit that you just spent all that time putting it in place? You know, add another one, like instead of the one meal a day, keep that going, but then add something else, okay? How are you going to get more sleep? How are you going to do you know, all these other things? So, uh, finally after, you know, time and time again where I would go through those sort of cycles of, I'm going to do this, and then you do it, do it, do it. And then when it's done, you're like, yes, back to normal. 2s Not smart. So now I finally figured out, yeah, you just keep that one going and then add another one, and then add another one bit by bit and all sorts of compounds. So, um, anyway, that's a really long way of answering the question of I'm now at the point where I don't honestly care what I weigh because, like, I can't even believe I'm saying that out loud. I still check in just to make sure, you know, see where I'm at. But it's just kind of like, oh, okay, that's from it. Because now I know when I eat this way, I feel fantastic. I get all the nutrients I need, I lose maybe a pound a week, which for me is perfect because then I'm still sane and I can still function as a human. And I've got enough energy and I can still lose the weight that you need to. So I don't know what my ideal weight is ever going to be. I'm more interested in do I keep my habit? 1s Think for me now, it's not the necessarily the result, although I do keep an eye on it just to make sure I'm on the right track. For me, the result is the fact that I did it again today. 1s Until I see one meal a day today. Check. Yes! Success! Awesome. That's a win. And where it ends up, I know it's going to head in the right direction. I don't know when it'll stop. I don't know, it doesn't matter because I feel fantastic and it's going to be what it is. So it's been, um, uh, incredibly freeing for me.
U1
14:58
Yeah. And I think it comes across in your sort of daily missive on WhatsApp, because sometimes you have a 27 hour gap between 18, sometimes it's 22, sometimes it's 15, sometimes it's bang on 24 hours. And I like the fact that you just go in with your intuition. Your hunger is satiety signals. And I would say that you've got food freedom and also freedom from the scale. I mean, my raw carnivore dog, Rupert has never once said, I can't have a third neck. What is what is it going to do to my waistline? You know, he just eats. And the thing is, when you eat the right thing, my dog doesn't woof the food down. And if he's not hungry, it doesn't eat it. And people say, this isn't a normal dog. I said, actually, this is a normal dog. And people that are feeding their dog rubbish and not seeing what a dog is actually like, they they will eat when they're hungry. Um, and that's why he's lean and fit and never goes to the vet for years. Never ill. It's just incredible. Anyway, enough about my dog. Uh, but do you still find the food interesting? You finding that it's sustainable and keeping you
U2
16:11
happy? 1s Yes, very much so. Uh, and for me, what I found, um, 1s the the kind of, uh, carnivore that works best for me is beef. And eggs. So I have a plate and I hamburgers. Fine with me. I don't need steak. Can't really afford steak every day anyway. But a plate full of hamburger. Uh, it does happen whatever various ways. And then a couple of eggs. And that combination not only gives you pretty much the full spectrum of all the nutrients that humans are ever going to need. Uh, it's, uh, bioavailable. So you digest it really easily. There's no wind, there's no nothing. Just perfect. Perfect. Um, to me, that that, uh, that lasts, uh, for as long I've tried, like, okay, I'm going to have a bunch of chicken wings or I'll have, uh, pork or I'll have something fish. None of that lasts. Like, I can have a the same amount of chicken wings. And by the, you know, the end of the day, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm starving here. Like, this is not good. Beef does, for whatever reason, just really, really, uh, works for me. Everybody's going to be a little bit different. But once you fall in that, then when it comes time to eat. 2s All I can think about is how awesome it's going to be to have hamburger and eggs, just like I had yesterday, just like I've had the last 60 days. I don't care, it's awesome. It's fantastic. And I think there's two, two reasons for that. One is, um, it's like the saying goes, uh hunger's the best sauce, right? So if you're hungry, it doesn't matter what you're going to eat, but also it's very satiating food. And, um, I just know that it's going to it's going to work for me so you don't lose that pleasure of eating, but you also don't need the novelty. I'll always new, new crazy new stuff. It's just it's just satisfying and just really great. Yeah. Well, I really enjoy about talking to you is you're always very careful that it's your experience. Uh, you say you're not a medical doctor and all this, but this is all about 1 to 1 experiences. And there will be people that you just say something and it chimes with them. It will just chime and and you're the people that need to hear this will be receptive. And one of the things I definitely learned in the last five years is if you want to eat this way, you've got to be ready and you've got to be open minded and prepare to experiment, because people come with preconceived ideas and they think, well, chickens and an animal that's going to fill me up. Uh, and I will be honest with you, when I did my 30 day challenge on my 55th birthday, I thought, yeah, I'll be alright if I have big variety. But the more I speak to people, we just seem that beef and eggs is a big part of a lot of people's success. But that doesn't mean you can't have variety. It's about
U1
19:09
what works for you. And um, I agree with you. I mean, nothing beats something like a rib eye. I'm the same as you. I can't afford steak every day, so I'll have ground beef and a butter. Um, I want to talk about some practicalities as well, because, um, how have you found your family and friends receiving the way you eat? Has it been an issue or nothing at all, or what?
U2
19:32
It varies. It depends on, um, on who you talk to. And it brings up another challenge with, with this sort of, uh, um. 1s The challenge with this kind of challenge is that food is not just for us. Food is an inherently social thing. Uh, and so, um, when you sort of. 2s Break up social norms. Uh, some people get twisted about it. Um, and you just kind of let them. It's when they do that, it's more about them. It's not really about you. So you just sort of let them have their concerns. But, um, so the social aspect of, you know, sitting down together, having a meal and, and you say, well, I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll have, uh, something to drink or I'll have, you know, I have a heavy cream with decaf coffee, you know, to keep me. So I'll sit there. I'll have something. So you're not, like, completely either staring at people and being socially awkward. Um, but the the there are people that that don't get it and they get angry to some folks are or have been, um. 1s Tight. Uh, and I use that word advisedly that that meat is bad for the environment. Uh, which is ridiculous. Uh, I live in a place that's the ranch where we get our beef is maybe, you know, 20 miles down the road, and it's just a bunch of cows standing in big fields of grass. Uh, so I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that you clearcutting land for your whatever products and killing all the animals that live on that thing, and then so you can, you know, make your whatever it is. The the equation just doesn't work. And I think part of the, the challenge that some folks run into is they've been told, uh, things that actually aren't super accurate in all senses. So, you know, there's that as well. So anytime you do something different than everybody else, someone's going to have a problem with it and you just kind of let them have it. Those people, they don't have to walk around with this around their belly. Right? Those people don't have to walk around in £120 fat suit. And if they want to walk around in £120 fat suit, so you can eat the way they do, great or otherwise just, you know, let me do my thing. 1s Yeah,
U1
21:52
I love that answer that's so rational and and placid and, uh, sensible. Uh, sadly, some of the people do get angry, and they just don't want to listen to that. What about, um, people really close to you like your family? Are they supportive? I know you were talking more about sort of collegial friends then.
U2
22:10
Yes. Um. They are. It's funny because my daughter, who's amazing, um, super bright, she's vegan. And so the two of us, uh, have just. We just kind of laugh at each other. It's like, you know what? If your food, my food ever collided, we'd have, like, a normal meal. This is amazing. So we have we have a great time with that. Um, so. But, you know, she gets it right. And I've actually taken a lot of inspiration from her because when she decided that's what she wanted to do, she just realized that she was going to be who she was and who she wanted to be, and everybody else was just going to have to deal with it on their own terms. Like, this is not a, you know, I'm doing this. If you don't like it, that is, you problem. And I really, really appreciated her, her sort of ability to do that. So I actually took inspiration from that. Um, my wife is cool with it. And she, you know, once she realized the poor thing has been through every possible diet over the years, every and she's like, okay, so what's the next thing? And what are we doing now? Okay, great. Uh, and so for her, uh, quite understandably, it's taken a while for her to go, oh, yeah, actually, you're actually doing this, and obviously it's really working. So she's been super accommodating that way on Beyond All reason. Uh, and my son, same sort of thing. So yeah. Close family um, are, are uh, once, once they see you winning. 1s It's hard to argue, right? If it's when it's still early in your, you know, sort of trying things out, you know, they'll give you some leeway. But once they see the winning on all fronts, then it's really hard for them to poke holes in it.
U1
23:47
Yeah. And I think that's a, that's a really good picture. You paint because your daughter's vegan, but you're cool with it and she's cool with what you're doing. Understand your reasons can see your, you know, you're living it and it's working for you. So that's a that's almost like a scripted reply, isn't it? I know it isn't scripted, but it's it's perfect for these purposes that there's no reason to be clashing with other people about the way they choose to live their life. Uh, when it comes to eating food, if they've made decisions, yes, it could be frustrating, like you say, with the misinformation about the impact on the environment, which doesn't make any logical sense. Um, you know, there's definitely involved in every food if you're a vegan and you're eating plants that have been flown around the world, you've been pesticides. But in the end, people make their decisions based on what they, uh, gleaned from the news and from from reading those sort of things. Right. I'm going to ask you a grizzly question because you said, you know, you don't have any gas and your digestion is great. Um, uh, many people think that carnivore diet is terrible because you'll be on the toilet all the time or never. I mean, what are your what are your toilet habits
U2
24:55
like? Uh, neither. Never nor always. Uh, certainly less. Uh, and, and and it's because, uh, so I've read and I do believe that it is bioavailable food like it's it your body says. Yep, all of that's good meat that that. But all of this is really good. We can use all of this. This is great. Uh, it's the it's when you eat stuff that your body just says. What? What is this? I can't I can't do anything. Get out of here. Right. So that's that's when you start. Really? Um. Uh, again. Me. Right. So run into into challenges. But. Yeah, other than that, um, it's, uh, it's pretty good. So I, I don't know, every other day or something, I'll get rid of stuff, but other than that, it doesn't really. Yeah.
U1
25:44
I mean, that's it is waste. And, um, you know, if you saw a motor vehicle going along the highway spewing out tons of, you know, smoke, you think, well, what are they putting into that? And that's it. Yeah. So yeah, that's really good. Right. Um,
U2
26:01
so
U1
26:02
the other, the other thing I was going to ask you was.
U2
26:06
When
U1
26:07
you first started eating this way. When do you think it all clicked?
U2
26:11
Does it take
U1
26:12
a long time for you to adapt?
U2
26:14
Yes. 1s Yeah, it took me, I would say 1s six months when I first decided, okay, I'm going to lean into this and go hard on the carnivore at least six months. And, you know, the first three months are just like your body is just like, hang on a minute, like. 1s 50 plus years of this. And now we've got. What do we like? What's going on here? Um, and then again, I just going off of what I read in other people's experience is your body has to change how it metabolize. So you go from the usual sort of diet into now your body said, okay, so we're now we're doing fat. Like so fat is our energy okay. So how do I, you know, glycolysis, all that sort of stuff that happens. But once you get through that transition period then it's a mental game. It's like completely mental game. Because now sudden your tastebuds and all the emotions and all the, you know, the the sort of pre rational sort of stuff that goes on around food, it is got to be retrained as well as your, as your body did. So it's, it's a nonstop sort of thing. But I think for me it was probably after a year of doing it. Then all of a sudden I finally realized like, yep, actually this is really, this is good. Uh, and then sort of lean into it. But it does take a long time. Not everybody takes that long. But it took me a long time.
U1
27:41
Yeah. And I wanted to add that because so many people that book me for coaching think it's going to be a magic wand. Four weeks later, it's all going to be hunky dory. And so for some people, it is some people isn't. Um, final question. Um, you lost £120, so I'm assuming you must have done tons of or insane amounts of cardio to do that.
U2
28:02
Yeah. Uh, not one bit, uh, at all. Like, not none of that was due to exercise. Uh, like, I do exercise to feel good, and I do exercise to, you know, to, you know, get stronger and just look better. But, uh, you can't. Well, I shouldn't say that. I can't, and I couldn't possibly exercise enough to get rid of the garbage I was putting in my body. Right. So you. Let's say you're lucky enough you get to work super hard for an hour, hour and a half, and you burn 500 calories. A couple of pieces of bread, and you're right back at square one again. So the the idea that you can exercise your way to weight loss is, uh, physically almost impossible if it's not coupled or driven largely by how you change your diet. Yeah,
U1
28:53
absolutely. So, um, I think it's been a great relationship, and I'm so pleased that you agreed to do a sort of come back video just to give us an update. Uh, if people want to see Mark's original video, um, I'll put a link in the description. And you might be surprised that Mark seems to have reverse aged a bit, um, when he came on, because we are WhatsApp ING, but we're not doing much face to face. So when we first came on, I was a bit like, wow, it looks better than when I first met him. So, uh, the reverse ageing again from carnivore is one of those things I know we shouldn't say, but, uh, I definitely think that is the case. Your hair seems to be darker, by the way. So, um, that happened to me as well. Do you do you think that's true?
U2
29:35
I don't, I don't think I don't know if it's darker. I don't do anything to it. I barely even comb this stuff. But, um, I do find that it's, uh, is thick. And, like, I figured, you know what? I'm turning 60 pretty soon. If I can grow hair, I'm going to bloody grow some hair. So that's kind of. Yeah. No, it's it's it's come in quite a bit more than I thought it would be. So.
U1
30:02
Well there's 120 years then on the screen right now. So, um, I'm really pleased that you said yes to this. Thanks for that, Mark. And, uh, it's been an absolute pleasure.
U2
30:11
Thank you, sir. Appreciate you.