22nd July: Blood Tests, eGFR is Flawed, Iron, Protein Shakes, Misleading TSH Levels and More

Richard and Stephen discuss a listener's question about HCL and pepsin supplements, as well as another question about a product for Meniere's disease. They also address a question about women losing their cycle on a carnivore diet and fasting, and explain the importance of feeding the body nutrients regularly instead of forcing prolonged periods of fasting. They suggest that proteins and fats are key for hormone production and regulation. Both Stephen and Richard discuss the best way to interpret blood test results, especially for those following a carnivore diet. They talked about the importance of looking at the context of the results and not just relying on standard ranges. They also discussed how TSH levels can be misleading and the need to consider clinical experience in addition to evidence-based studies. They touched on the importance of direct measurements for metrics like EGFR and LDL.

In a live stream, someone asked about a comment made by Jake Thomas about not relying on hip thrusts for glute building. The hosts discussed their opinions on the exercise and invited Jake to come on and explain his statement. They also discussed how not to interpret specific blood tests, using an example of liver enzymes and how they can be affected by factors other than liver damage. They also mentioned that looking at patterns and multiple metrics is important in understanding blood test results.

Restless leg syndrome can be caused by stress, alcohol, caffeine, vigorous exercise, lack of sleep, over-the-counter drugs, and dairy. Iron levels may also contribute, so getting a full iron panel done could help. Dairy can also inhibit iron absorption. There is unknown about the long-term effects of ingesting microplastics, but they can cause inflammation, oxidative stre

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Transcript

22nd July Transcript

Summary

Richard and Stephen discuss a listener's question about HCL and pepsin supplements, as well as another question about a product for Meniere's disease. They also address a question about women losing their cycle on a carnivore diet and fasting and explain the importance of feeding the body nutrients regularly instead of forcing prolonged periods of fasting. They suggest that proteins and fats are key for hormone production and regulation. Both Stephen and Richard discuss the best way to interpret blood test results, especially for those following a carnivore diet. They talked about the importance of looking at the context of the results and not just relying on standard ranges. They also discussed how TSH levels can be misleading and the need to consider clinical experience in addition to evidence-based studies. They touched on the importance of direct measurements for metrics like EGFR and LDL.

In a live stream, someone asked about a comment made by Jake Thomas about not relying on hip thrusts for glute building. The hosts discussed their opinions on the exercise and invited Jake to come on and explain his statement. They also discussed how not to interpret specific blood tests, using an example of liver enzymes and how they can be affected by factors other than liver damage. They also mentioned that looking at patterns and multiple metrics is important in understanding blood test results.

Restless leg syndrome can be caused by stress, alcohol, caffeine, vigorous exercise, lack of sleep, over-the-counter drugs, and dairy. Iron levels may also contribute, so getting a full iron panel done could help. Dairy can also inhibit iron absorption. There is unknown about the long-term effects of ingesting microplastics, but they can cause inflammation, oxidative stress, endocrine disruption, and potential carcinogenic and neurotoxic effects. 

Other topics:

Basically, nuts, coconut oil, milk, and pea protein should be avoided due to potential negative effects on health. Avocado oil and beef protein are generally fine, but should be used sparingly and as a supplement to traditional animal proteins. Cold water dips and red light therapy may also be helpful in managing certain health conditions. Animal proteins are the best source of nutrients as they come as nature intended. This means it contains amino acids and fats that work together to be most beneficial for our bodies. Eating animal proteins is better than consuming protein powder. Nuts and seeds in a smoothie is counterintuitive as they contain lectins which can block nutrients from being absorbed by our body.

 Transcription

 Good numbers. It's brilliant. Um, we have a question which says what? What is your opinion of HCO and pepsin? It does say in this group, but I'm going to, uh, broaden it out. I've started taking it this week to help with stomach upsets, and it appears to be working. What do you think of those two supplements? You know, I had a similar conversation today. Um, my thoughts are that using them is just going to slow down the body's natural ability. Um, but somebody who was used them and uses them regularly with clients has informed me, um, with good consent and authority, that that they do work. They allow the body to. So my, my my thought process is if we are using a supplement in order to achieve a reaction, then the body's own regulators ability to do so. Um, but I've been told otherwise today by a good authority. So, um, if it's working, it's working. My my concern is that we are going to rely on it too much. But I've been told that if that's not the case, the body does upregulate its ability to, um, to use those functions. And I guess it's the same way as I've been saying in regards to an exogenous ketone supplement, isn't it? You know, that does switch off ketone production, but the long term it allows it to upregulate. So, um, I've never used any myself. Um, I've had very few clients who have used any HDL or pepsin for, uh, you know, for any reason. Um, but yeah, if it's working, it's working. Yeah. I mean, this is a big bugbear of mine because, um. What's happening now is clinical experience and it is being ignored too much in the mainstream. So that's carnivores, isn't it? You know, people are doing a certain way of eating and it's being ignored, even though there's it's self-evident. It's helping lots of people. So, you know, it works both ways. If someone is if someone says to me, I've added avocados and it's been a game changer, then I'm not going to say, well, that's rubbish, because that's clinical experience. You know, it's worked. So right. We've got a question. Um, has anyone heard of this product? My sister asked me about this today. I am trying to get her to stop taking Ozempic, which is sort of the weight loss drug. And the product is, um, it's it's basically the C15 zero essential fatty acid. Have you heard of it, rich? Um, no. Ozempic. Yes. But it's, um. I mean, you've probably got way more experience in this than I have, I'm guessing. Well, yeah. I mean, the problem is it's the reason people haven't heard of it is because all it is is an odd chain fatty acid, which is the C 15 part. The 15 bit is showing you how many carbons. And it's just another way of selling something if you want or chain fatty acids then you just have some dairy really is that simple. And actually that's one of the mechanisms that dairy has to put weight on you or chain fatty acids. What happens is when they break down the carbons, there ends up with a three carbon fragment because it's an odd chain. And the liver absolutely loves making glucose out of odd fragments like that. So that is the mechanism for some people. While dairy puts weight on you, but ozempic you lose a lot of muscle as well as body fat, you lose it off your face as well. So there's now a thing called ozempic face. That's not something I would recommend. So anyway, we can go to the messages in the chat and then, uh, young Matthew's got his hand up. Well, we'll do the chat messages first, if that's okay. Josh and Lucy. Uh, welcome. And it's a very long question. Anyway, I did a 44 hour detox fast on the 1st of January, and straight after that, I tried Carnivore January. However, it didn't last too long. Ten days, and I slowly transitioned back to my old ways of eating roast potatoes, finishing off the kids meals and the odd chocolate. In February, I suffered a four hour vertigo attack, which was horrendous and subsequently was diagnosed with Meniere's disease. Leading up to this point, I had been experiencing issues with my left ear tinnitus, uh, stroke, feeling of fullness. This led me to take diet more seriously and decided to do a 72 hour fast in April to try and help with the symptoms. Since this fast, I have not had a period of three months now, and up until this point I had a regular cycle. I'm not sure whether it is the 72 hour fast the mini is, or the new diet that has knocked all my hormones out of whack. I'm 34. I don't think I'm premenopausal. Have you had any experience with fasting, carnivore diet, and women losing their cycle? Yes, I did actually answer this on the school, by the way, but I wanted Richard also to answer it. I would just say that what I said on school, I haven't had experience of people losing their cycle on the carnivore diet, but I certainly have had experience with women losing their cycle fasting. It's normally under eating that stops that, and it's normally a nutrient in particular. I'm not saying there is a magic nutrient, by the way. It's a nutrient that that person is deficient of. So whatever that may be, let's say it's leucine. I'm not saying it is, but it could be. You know, it's all the precursors to all the hormones. It could be cholesterol, simple as that, you know, which is such a precursor to everything. Um, but yeah, experienced it with fasting and normally how do people resolve it? They don't fast. They just go back to eating their normal pattern. Uh, that doesn't mean you've got to not fast. Ever. But, um, that that would be my take. But I'm dying to hear Richard's take. I do have to just make sure my dog's all right. So I'm going to leave the screen. But I'm listening, rich, when I get back, okay? Please. Yeah, I completely agree. It's this is a big bugbear of mine at the moment in regards to to the, the lifestyle that we live. Um, many gravitate into this and do prolonged periods of fast and I'm fasting is fantastic. Um, if your body is is okay with it. Um, now, the big thing with fasting, it sort of came on to the scene in regards to weight loss, weight management. Um, which it does do. And it isn't just because you're not eating, because we've seen through scientific research that, uh, if you were to consume the same caloric value, uh, over the period of a day or two, um, but you were fasted for 16, 18, 20 hours and so on and so forth, that this does increase metabolic rate and allows us to, to burn, uh, more, more energy. Um, and it does so through a number of reasons. It's mainly to do with the elicitation of insulin and, um, the body's ability not to activate, uh, lipoprotein like bees, which is going to break the bonds on the glycerol backbone and send fatty acids into the fat cell. Uh, plus the fact we're not consuming the compounds like the lectins, which are binding to these receptor sites, an increase in further fat loss. But the main reason we fast is for autophagy. Um, and for anyone who doesn't know what autophagy is, it is cellular repair and regeneration. The body takes old, sick, dying cells. It recycles them into new, younger, stronger, fitter, faster cells. And that's fantastic. This is something that we do not achieve on a standard lifestyle. Um, at least not, uh, at an adequate amount. And the reason for this is we're told to eat little and often, and when we eat little and often, we're constantly in this activation of mTOR. Ampk is the opposite, and they work against each other as a seesaw effect, if you like. When I'm talking activated, Ampk comes down. Ampk is a fasted state. This is what activates us and allows us to be in a fasted state. Now autophagy is achieved purely by being ketogenic. We don't need to fast when we're living a ketogenic or carnivore lifestyle. Just live in this lifestyle will activate this pathway. So somebody who is on carbohydrate and lots of carbohydrate would need to not eat to elicit this response. But when we are living a ketogenic lifestyle, the pure production of ketones allows us to elicit these, these same responses. And they are um, they are autophagy mate or 4G brown fat activation like paralysis, insulin sensitivity. Um, what else is there? Brown fat activation, BDNF activation, so on and so forth. So we achieve these by living the lifestyle. So does that mean that we need to fast know if we are living a ketogenic lifestyle carnivore lifestyle, we do not need to fast. If someone were to ask me now do I fast, my answer would be no. Have I eaten today? My answer is also not so technically from someone else's point of view. I'm in a fasted state, but I don't. I haven't actively tried to achieve a fast. I haven't set out today looking to achieve a fasted state. I'm eating intuitively, and what I mean by that is I haven't forced a fast. So I haven't woken up this morning saying to myself, well, I'm not going to eat for 16, 18 or 20 hours. I'm eating intuitively. Some days I'll wake up, I'll have breakfast, some days are done, some days I'll eat lunch, some days I don't. I eat when my body tells me to eat. The issue with going into this, um, with having a set amount of time for a fast in our minds, is whether we are hungry or not, we will stick to this fasted state. Being in that state of fasting for prolonged periods of times will increase insulin. It can lead to all sorts of, uh, of negative effects on, on cycle, on hormone and so on and so forth. We need to be in a state where we're feeding the body nutrients. Uh, and what I find with women in particular is that they need to eat more frequently, and that's roughly 2 to 3 times per day. Um, so knock the fasted on the head, get back into feeding the body the nutrients it needs. As Stephen says, proteins and fats, proteins and fats make hormones. Uh, we need proteins and fats to make the hormones within the body. Um, drop the fast and just get back to eat the nice fatty cuts of food. Eat to satiety. Stop when you fall, listen to your body. And hopefully this should begin to remedy many of the issues there. Absolutely. Uh, Mike Buckley. He's asking. I eat a lot of pork. Due to financial restraints, what are some ways to determine if the linoleic acid is oxidizing or oxidative? Um, well, with pork, actually, it's it's a nice, cheap, easy way to work this out if it doesn't taste right. And if it doesn't smell right, I know that. I know it's I can see you might do that. It it really is, uh, that simple. And believe it or not, if it's oxidized, pork will taste or even smell a little bit fishy. Um, but that's because of the compounds which are similar in, um, fish and oxidation. Anyway, um, you can do tests, but they're the best tests because you start having to go to a lab and you do what's called PV tests and all this sort of stuff. You could take the meat in and you could, you could say, um, but yeah, just go with, um, uh, taste and odours. But I think if Richard's got something better because you never know. Spot on. Look, by the time you've taken it to be tested, it's going to be oxidized anyway, isn't it? Um. By fresh. As fresh as you can, um, freeze if you have to. You know, I'm. I'm not against freezing foods. I know people like to just buy fresh every day. I find if I buy in bulk and freeze much of it and then just take it out as I'm using it, then that's perfectly fine. But the best, the best. This is the best sensor you know you can. It's pretty easy to tell. And you could, especially the organ meats. And every one of us that buys organ meats will know that organ meats don't last very long. And once they start to turn, you know all about it. And it's the same with pork. Um, just use the smell test. You know, it's, um, once pork begins to oxidize, as Stephen says, it's not going to smell very pleasant. Um, you know, I, I'd advise not to eat any meats that that smell off. Listen, listen to your body. Listen to those receptors. Yeah. If you. I had a consultation with someone recently, I can't remember who. They probably on the call. Um, if they all let me know they were eating a piece of, um, piece of beef, and most of it was okay. And they came across a part that just didn't taste right. And he was right on the edge where it just started to, to to turn bad and become oxidized, um, meat when it's stored against other meats, like, you know, when you pack meat, you know, when you've sliced meats and you store it, pack them. It begins to degrade very quickly. Um, this is why, you know, we either need to eat it fresh or eat it from frozen, not frozen, but once it's been defrosted. Um, but the smell test. Definitely. The smell test is. This is why we have all these receptors. You know, um, no. Pork is high in linoleic acid. It's about 20 times higher. 10 to 20 times higher than than beef. Um, is it a problem? You know, I I'm torn. I'm torn. Because I do believe that the higher ratio can be problematic, um, even though it may not be oxidized. That said, I think if we live this lifestyle and we can offset that with higher omega threes from things like lamb, beef, um, the, uh, the, uh, the omega threes in the, in the fish that we eat and living the lifestyle, the living living the lifestyle that we live allows us to to fight off a lot of these, um, the, these oxidative stress, a lot of this, uh, inflammation that we get within the body, um, we don't need specific compounds in order to do that, which you've heard me mention many times in regards to Nrf2. Um, so yeah, I'm torn, particularly when it comes into, uh, the amount of linoleic acid. But as long as we live in the lifestyle, we can offset it with mega meager three I love pork. Pork is fantastic with the fat in pork, um, is an incredible type of fat to offset. It's, um, deuterium. Um, so it's lard is incredibly good. It's all fats, but particularly, um, the fats from from pork. So I eat pork generally once a week. Um, chicken once a week. In fact, I had chicken last night. But beef and lamb predominantly. Chicken and pork fill the gaps and I am enjoying salmon a lot lately as well. As long as you're not, uh, you don't suffer with any reaction to that. But I know it sounds like a simple answer, Mike, but does that answer your question? Listen to your nose. Yeah. You know, factory nerves are there for that very reason. Um, if you really wanted to get into this, I mean, um, it is light and oxygen that is causing this to happen to oxidize. Obviously, as the name implies, if you wasn't going to eat the pork for, say, a couple of days, I would actually not get the fresh bit from the butcher's display. I would actually say I want the pork chops, but can I have direct from frozen if you really, you know, because it has been exposed to oxygen and light. But I put it this way, I never do that. So, you know, I'm quite happy to, uh, to risk it. Um, the other thing is, and I'm desperately trying to find it, was that the stats about linoleic acid in pork compared to I think it was almonds actually. Or walnuts. And it the pork had 1/20 of a handful of um, you know, almonds. And so I think it isn't as bad as we, we, uh, we sort of believe. Right. Just sorry. Just to add to that, I'm, I'm always inclined to linoleic acid from meat is very different from the linoleic acid we find in vegetable oils because it's found as CLA conjugated linoleic acid. When it's found in CDOs, it's linoleic acid. They're not the same thing. Um, so despite being called an acid, conjugated linoleic acid works in the body very differently to a supplement in the form of linoleic acid also. So when we buy these compounds as as CLA in supplement form, they're taken from vegetable oils. So we know that the CLA from vegetable oils is toxic. It's oxidized. It's already oxidative. But. When we look at animal proteins, there are two. There are two different things. Um, generally when we consume things from animal proteins, they come as nature intended. And they're not they're not the same component. I think we always we always need to remember this because they're two very different things. They work differently within the body. Again, nature is providing us with a compound that is is meant to be consumed and compounds that we have consumed our entire existence. Um, what those animals are fed, I think would probably bear, uh, a bigger, um, but here we are. Oh, there we are. There's the legacy content. I knew you'd find it. Yeah, and sorry for the people on the audio podcast who can't see this, but linoleic acid per 100g. See, when you compare pasture raised to grain fed chicken, for instance, there's like a big difference. There's more in the grain fed. But if you put those two numbers next to walnuts, uh, walnuts is something like what would you say, 30 times more linoleic acid per 100g than either type of those chickens. So you know. Even the animal proteins that have linoleic acid in are nowhere near as bad as walnuts. But anyway, it's a great question. You see, it opens up so many different things to look at. I thought that was great. Um, right. Uh, Matthew saying we love you blabbering on. I'm assuming he's talking about you, Richard. Uh, right. You do a good enough job, Steve. Also. Right? Uh, Victoria is saying. Hello, everyone. I've got a question about bulking up. Not for me, but my husband. Uh, he wants to build bulk, but he's concerned that he won't eat enough if he just eat meat. He has lots. He has a lot of calories in homemade smoothies with beef protein, uh, beef protein powder, pea protein, nuts, coconut oil, avocado and milk. But will any of this be competing with the nutrients from the meat? So just reading that now has lots of calories. Homemade smoothie with beef protein powder. Pea protein. So look, the best source of nutrients is always going to come from from something that was was once alive. Animal proteins. I make supplements, I sell, uh, protein powders. Um, I sell a protein powder that I believe to be one of the best that's available. Um, that said, I would always tell you to preference animal proteins or with protein powder. And the reason being, an animal proteins come as nature intended. They come with the fat as nature intended. Nature provides us with this perfectly packaged present that gives us everything that we need, not just to survive, but thrive. Amino acids. Need fats to be assimilated correctly. Um, not just our vitamin, uh, aid and K, the fat soluble vitamins. The amino acids. Also, if we consume protein without fats, then they're not assimilated as well. And the fats that are found within the protein do this assimilation better than added fats. Uh, again, because they come as nature intended, does that mean that it's not going to be a benefit from taking, uh, a supplement protein? No, there's still going to be a benefit. What I would say in this is, um, the nuts is going to cause a problem. Nuts. If you put in nuts into a smoothie. Uh, a very high in lectins and fighting acid. Fighting acid will block the absorption of zinc by as much as 100%. Zinc is essential for the production of testosterone. So if you're trying to build muscle, that is absolutely counterintuitive. So the nuts and seeds need to go. Um, also that they contain lectins. And lectins do the same thing. The lectins will bind to the the entire sites lining the gut, uh, on the micro villi. And they will block the absorption of other nutrients. So the microvilli are like little fingers and they're open. And we have all of this surface area for nutrients to bind to. But what happens is when lectins bind to them from any source, whether it's wheat germ or gluten or fight or hemagglutinin, it does this or reduces the surface area so nutrients can still be absorbed, but the amount of surface area is reduced. Therefore, the amount of nutrients that we absorbed becomes massively reduced. Um, so nuts have got to go. Uh, coconut oil. Coconut oil is very high in C12 lauric acid, which is fantastic for increasing cholesterol, which as we know cholesterol is very important for health and well-being. Um, so that could confer a benefit. And I haven't used that for a while. I don't think I used it last night. Um, so coconut oil could confer a benefit in that aspect. Uh, on the opposite end of the scale. Uh, coconut oil contains a compound called or lay your sins. And all your sins can cause intestinal permeability. Not in everyone, but they can in some people. This is why metals are usually referenced, whether it's a C8 or whether it's a blend of CHC ten and C12. Um, but I'm not adverse to coconut oil. I've recently just ordered some myself for increasing, um, my cholesterol. Uh, avocado oil. Yeah. That's fine. That's right. On the lower end of toxic plant compounds. Uh, milk contains casein, so that is going to cause intestinal permeability even. It's even if it's A2. But again, all of these things are, um, individual. I don't consume milk of any or any source, even a2, a2 as we know from testing done with the Maasai and the Kikuyu that it can still cause intestinal permeability. So it doesn't matter whether it's E1 or A2 or how unpasteurized that it is. If you can be without milk, remove that just to add water instead. P protein. It depends on whether it's an isolate form. If it's isolate then it may be free of fighting acid and lectins. But pea protein, if it's not, can be incredibly high in fighting acid and lectins also. Um, he's in fact a highly toxic to the human body. Um, so remove peas from the diet if you consume them. But pea protein and isolate form should be okay. Uh, what else is in there? So homemade smoothie beef protein. So beef protein is fantastic. Um, isolate we want from there. Ideally, the nuts remove the coconut oil, provided you don't have intestinal permeability. The avocado oil or avocado, if that's what you mean. That should be okay, but take the milk out. Beyond that, we're all good. Um, but again, preference animal proteins use these to fill a gap. Um, but preference animal proteins, whatever you can. That's a great answer, actually, that's a great answer. And for those that don't know, we do offer a playback. It will be available tomorrow and also be a transcript, a PDF. So if you're taking lots of notes, you don't have to, uh, Isabelle, who's saying any experience of carnival helping Reynolds. Thank you, as always, with a big community like this, you immediately get someone that says, I've had that and the pain is lessened. Um, does depend whether it's primary. I can see Isabelle on the screen, so I can say, put your thumbs up if it's a primary or secondary. Reynolds. Is it primary which doesn't know. Right. Okay. Right. So, uh, just to answer the question, I'll do a Richard afterwards, but I'll answer the question. Yes, I've had experience with people improving Reynolds. And there is a primary where there's no underlying cause and there's a secondary where there's like an autoimmune condition. Uh, I was trying to find one of my videos of a success story. Um, so basically what's happening is you get a vaso spasm, which is basically your arteries, your blood flow, your vessels narrow, and then you get, like, white fingers. That's that's the most common one. So this way of eating does actually stop that happening. So much so in the first place there's less systemic inflammation. So even if there is sort of like a, uh, you know, constriction in the vessels, it's not so pronounced. So as Andrew, I think said the the pain used to be unreal. Now it's much, much better, but it's still getting some problems. And he's been two years Carnival. Um you can I've, I've seen much quicker resolution of this. There is also some rehab things that I can do. Obviously it's online so can't do it for people. But you could go to a chiropractor or somebody that's trained in osteopathic spinal manipulation and say, they've got Reynolds. Can you, um, can you help me? And you don't need to pay for lots. If they say yes, you need to do a course of five visits. That's not true. I used to help people within about 20 minutes, and visibly, they would see a difference, uh, in the color of their skin. So there is some manipulation that comes from impingement of some of the nerves and C three, four and five. But the best thing is the diet because it will if you're if you've got secondary Raynaud's then it's going to get rid of the conditions, the autoimmune conditions that are causing you some problems. Um, so yeah, the answer is yes. We've had some help with carnivore, but sometimes it does take a couple of years. Sometimes it can be really quick. Did that help? Great. Two thumbs up. That's good. Just the jab on the back of that quickly. Yeah. Please do. Yes. If you don't mind, this is something I spoke to, um, uh, Ben Izzard about recently. So Ben Izzard has lived a ketogenic lifestyle for quite some time. He's been a sufferer of Raynaud's for many years. Living a ketogenic lifestyle is not. It's a massive improvement. But he still suffers. Um, but he has found a technique which is massively improved. Uh, one was going carnivore for 90 days. Surprise, surprise, because he's removing the plant compound. Um, now, that could be partly to do with part of this. Could be to do with an autoimmune issue, which you can test with the eosinophils, which I'm sure Steve can can go through blood work on that with you. Uh, a number of other white blood cells could possibly be increased as well, if it's an autoimmune issue. Um, but what he's done is he started to do cold water dip in, so he's bought, um, his own. Uh, I don't know if he was a turbo, whether it was a barrel, but he put it to a certain temperature. Now, he jumped into this barrel or bath, whatever it was. Um, he lives in Miami, by the way. So, I mean, you know, you can picture the scene. Um, he lasted, like, less than a minute or something in this. I think it was, you know, within. Within the water. Um, next day, he jumped back in. He lasted a bit longer. The third time, he lasted, like, ten minutes. Uh, and he was all good to go. Next time he jumped in, he lower the temperature and he managed to stay in there for like a further ten minutes. The next day it was he dropped it again and then it was too cold for him. You lasted like a minute or two, but then the day after, he jumped back in again, basically all the weeks and weeks and weeks of lowering the temperature gradually, um, his Raynaud's have almost completely disappeared. So, I mean, it's, um, something else other than diet to throw into the mix. But, you know, I would say the diet is always going to be the biggest contributing factor. If nothing else, if it is an autoimmune issue, this is the best way to to combat any autoimmune issue. And when we live in this way, the body creates beta hydroxybutyrate, which as we know from previous talks, it blocks that pathway in Nlrp3 inflammasome, which is responsible for for much of the inflammatory signaling. Um, by doing so, it allows to to alleviate at least some of the pain. But yeah, there's a few a few tricks to to throw into the mix. Yeah, that's fascinating actually. And I've not heard that. So I'm sorry. You're going to get a little bit of speculation here. What I reckon then is happening. So people talk about frostbite and what happens there when you, you, your body actually gets rid of your toes and your fingers to keep your core temperature up. I reckon that the cold plunge, what that's doing, because it's normally in the peripherals that you have the Raynaud's problem, especially like white fingers. I think what's happening there and the cold plunges is you're you're literally training your body to upregulate the mechanism of saving your peripherals and then also warming up your core. So I think that's, that's that makes sense to me. And I think that's exactly what the cold water dippin does, isn't it. Because it's true or misses. Uh, and you guys have probably heard Steve and I talk about how medics and homies, we're told the plants. Um. Put us into a whole automatic state, which is where we consume something that's a little bit bad for us, but it confers a benefit. But plants don't, and we can go into this if we've got time now. But true homicide is environmental homicides. And that's exactly what this is. It's when we put a stress and train in is environmental homie sis, red light therapy, cold water dippin and I believe yeah, I think you're right, Steve upregulate. And the body's ability to increase the pathways and enable us to combat um said problem. Whereas eating it through plants which is called molecular emesis, it doesn't work because of its elicitation of the Nrf2 pathway, which is an oxidative stress pathway. This is why molecular homicide and environmental homicide are two, two different things. Yeah, absolutely. It's great. Andrew's put a comment in here, but I think it's worth mentioning because it's something uh, it may be a question, but he's. But I suffer with restless leg syndrome. Not as bad on carnivore. The more I eat, the better I am. Do you find that you have clients that come to you with restless leg syndrome? Yeah, it's. Yeah. I mean, Andrew's been carnival for quite some time. Um, I would have expected a lot of these issues to have completely disappeared by now. Um, there are a number of contributing factors which I let you go into the details in regards to those, but it's, um. For me, I used to suffer with severe, restless legs until I gravitated into Quito. Uh, and I don't get anything at all anymore now. So I'm surprised Andrew does because I know Andrew is is a long term, uh, ketogenic or uh, carnivore. Um, yeah. He told me, um, what? I was going to throw something in. So normally the sort of culprits are stress, alcohol, caffeine, vigorous exercise where you've gone too far. Uh, lack of sleep in its own right can cause a problem. Over-the-counter drugs and all that. That's a normal thing. And dairy as well can cause it. There is an unmentioned thing that also can contribute. And that's iron, actually. So you could if you're if you're still having restless leg syndrome and you've spoken to Rich and had all the coaching and you're doing everything you can, I would just I would get a full iron panel done just to check that. I mean, one of the reasons I mentioned dairy there as a the normal culprits is part of the reason I think dairy causes a problem is in inhibits your absorption of iron. So your serum iron might be okay. I think Rich and I spoke about this in a different scenario the other day. But if it's not getting to yourselves, then you get a problem. I mean, there is there is more to this than meets the eye. I don't want to get into too much, but I am will have an effect on dopamine, your circadian rhythms, your sleep and also your relaxation, which is partly what restless leg syndrome is indicating that your legs aren't resting, basically. Um, so if you have a total iron binding capacity reading your iron saturation, transferring ferritin and serum iron, you might find that you're doing something that's inhibiting your iron absorption. So that's that's that's one I was going to say love and interest. And it's funny you should mention dairy causing a problem because dairy saying calcium and calcium blocks the absorption of iron. There you go. You see it all locked in. Uh, right. Uh, I'm not ignoring you, Matthew. I'm just doing the questions that were put up before your hand was up. But I think now. Uh. Matthew. We've. We've got two questions that were before you so far away, sir. You're still muted math. Good evening gents. Are we doing. Yeah. Good. Thanks. How both of you. Yes. All good. All good. You. Excellent. Yeah. Good. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Just done a bicep workout at home just before the live, so. Yeah, I'm quite pumped up and really looking forward to carry on listening to this. So. Yeah. So. Right. I've done some research from last week about the Cornish sea salt from the Cornwall Sea. Unfortunately it does contain microplastics and so does Maldon sea salt. Uh, it seems like Celtic sea salt is the only salt which is microplastic free. There is Himalayan salt. But of course, how that is, how that is mined and mined and everything that's that could be not great either. But it looks like Himalayan sea. Himalayan pink salt is better than literally all the other salts apart from Celtic sea salt. So my question is, if we were to intake microplastics long term, what damage could that do to the body? You know, I don't think we really know because microplastics is relatively new in regards to compounds to the human body. Um, but, you know, I would suggest that any compound that is not meant to be in the human body is going to cause problems long term. Um, maybe Steve's got some research, but it's, um, microplastics. Not something we would have consumed in nature. Uh, I completely agree. I think the Celtic Sea salt, uh, the brand that I stock, which is a third party brand, which I don't make any money on, by the way. Um, I don't make money on third party brands, but it's the brand that I use. Um, I'll pop a link in the chat now when Steve's chatting away, but it is certified microplastic free. It is tested. I was a big, uh, I used to. I used to make one, not make. But I used to stock my own brand of pink Himalayan. Um. And I've stopped since I've discovered the research that you just mentioned in regards to the mining process and the way that the dynamite, uh, it can can expose chemicals to to the pink Himalayan and how pink Himalayan is not organic, um, which makes Celtic sea salt far more bioavailable. I've moved into a third party brand so I no longer stock my own pink Himalayan I stock and use personally. Uh, a very trusted brand that is microplastic free tested. Batch tested. Um, yeah. So fantastic research. I mean, we laid that down as a mission last week, didn't we, to go away and see if if, um, those salts were microplastic free. So I'm well impressed that you've, uh. I think we need to give you a gold star. Oh. Thank you. Absolutely. Have you got a follow up question? Are you. Is that okay? Now I was fine. I just wondering if I could just very quickly screen share something with you. Uh, I that's why I said it. I knew you'd have something going there. Is that all right? It's a, um, hair pomade product. I used to always gel my hair as a teenager and into my early 20s, but since I learned about the toxic chemicals in them, I haven't really ever put anything in my hair again. Uh, I found something with about. I think it was 3 or 4 ingredients, so I just wondered if I could screen, share it with you and just see what you think of the ingredients. Well, can I tell you something before you do that, Matthew? Yeah. Uh, my hair stays up, and I have a two ingredient thing. One of them is water and the other is salt, and that's it. I know, but I just wondering if people wanted to buy, like, a, like a pro mod. Uh, maybe maybe like, this is, like the cleanest one they're going to find on the market. But I know your hair looks fantastic. Don't get me wrong, I think yours and Richard's hair styles are really cool, but. You can screen share it if you'd like. Excellent. Uh, people on the audio podcast I will describe what we're looking at. But while Matthew was getting that on the screen, um, I will just say what I just said. I actually just use water and salt. So, are you sharing? Oh, hello. Oh. Is it. It's not that. Aha. This. Yeah. There you go. Natural. Chemical and fragrance. Free. Sensitive. Medium to stronghold. Clay pomade, 50g, 50 gram, £7. In its costing. And what's in it? Uh, it was £2.10 delivery. So it's only £9.10. So that's really, really cheap. So the ingredients are, uh, kaolin clay, organic beeswax, organic shea butter. And then it says a few drops of organic jojoba oil. Yehovah. Yehovah oil. Mhm. What do you think any of those ingredients bad or pretty safe in your opinion? Yeah, I think that's pretty clean. Um, you know, the saying is don't put anything on your skin that you wouldn't put into your mouth. Um, you know, the some of those that I wouldn't. But in regards to compounds that are available for hair product, I think that's one of the cleanest ones I've seen. Yeah. Apart from my one. Apart from Steve's. Yeah. Yes. That's true. Thank you. Thank you. Matthew. And I mean, literally, it's just this little spray bottle. I just fill it with water and a small amount of salt and, uh, you know, people see me online. Just. That's it. Um. And I was the same, you know, when I was younger and I put jelly in or whatever. Everything was irritating. Going back to your microplastics, Richard basically said exactly what is. The studies are ongoing because it's a new thing. But we do know about microplastics. We know that they elicit inflammation. We do know that that's a fact. Um, it does seem to increase oxidative stress, but pretty much everything does. That's modern nowadays. You've got BPA. That's obviously an endocrine disruptor, which I think people are wise to now because there's many products like hair products where they say BPA free. Um, I think the endocrine disruption is a really big issue. Um, it's been shown in animals to disrupt their reproductive function as well. That's as much as I can remember. I know there's a couple of other things, probably carcinogenic, I would imagine. Uh, but I don't know if they could actually nail that as a as a thing. Uh, there's one other one. I think it's, uh. Oh, come on. It's still, I think it's to do with the neurotoxicity as well. So all the normal things, you know, that we would we would expect to be a problem. Uh, at this juncture, Richard, I think it's really handy that you got the opportunity to tell people about the Carnival conference, because we keep getting people joining school, which is fantastic. We've got a lot of members now. Uh, don't forget, you can still join if you haven't joined before. And you're listening to this on the podcast. Um, many people want to know about meetups, so I think they've missed your bit about the Carnival conference in the UK. Brilliant. Thank you. I've just posted a link there, so. Yes. Um. We are. Steven and I speak in at a conference in September. September 1415. It's a two day event. It's an intimate event, uh, with all UK based because, um, we could have had the likes of, of Doctor Chief and and Co to attend. But we've decided to do this in order to promote the UK, the UK carnival scene. But this is going to be a lot different to any other event. The speakers there are going to educate everybody but give everybody takeaways. So there's going to be something for everyone to take away and to implement. This is going to be an actionable, um, carnival weekend. Um, there's going to be groaned in and maybe some yoga work and so on and so forth, but it's all enclosed in Cliff College. Um, we've hired the full event. Um, so there's accommodation included. Should you wish to do that, you can camp there. Uh, also, but it's a two day event, food included. So amazing speakers. Um, if you guys can can make it there, then. Fantastic. It'd be brilliant to see you guys. But, yeah, looking forward, I can't wait for that. Yeah, I like that. Which is fantastic. Yeah. I, uh, yeah, with my hair done like this. Right. So, uh, a question, by the way, on school, which I wasn't going to go to unless we had a little bit of time, but we have got time. There's no other questions in the room. So, um, Helena asked, does anyone know why Jake Thomas? Oh, hello. We've got some bloods now for some reason. Oh, sorry, man, am I sharing that? No, already I do. Ah, by the way, we'll wait until that's okay, right? Yes. Okay. Does anyone know why Jake Thomas said on the 24 hour live stream for women not to rely on the hip thrust for glute building? Um, well, you would. You know, any mechanical reason, Steve? I mean, for me. No, no, I don't think so. Um, is it just because it doesn't maybe confer as much of a benefit as other exercises? I don't know, I think mechanically, I we're both the same. I know a lot of women who are pro bodybuilders who use that as an integral part of their training. Uh, with with no issues or side effects or I know of any I know of no reason why not. You know, include it in part of your training. Uh, yeah. I can't see that. I mean, if you wanted to be really nuanced. I mean, nothing really beats things that are split, so, like split squats and Bulgarian squats and, uh. Plyometrics, you know, going upstairs, going up steps, jumping. You know, all those sorts of things are great, but, uh, hip for us. You know, I don't think there's anything negative. Go back to your screen share, by the way, just to come on to that, Steve, I wonder whether maybe we should invite Jake to come on and we can ask him that very question. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Pull him up about it and say, come on, pull him up. Yeah. And just to go back into that, we have doctor Labs coming on as a guest, don't we. In in two weeks time, I think. Is it two weeks or three weeks. Yeah. Longevity. Yeah. Longevity special. The first Thursday of the month was fantastic. So there we are. Stay tuned for that one. So yes, this is something that Steven and I were chatting about yesterday. Unless there's any other questions you guys wanted to go into. But um, I thought this was was worth chatting about yesterday because it's something Steve's been looking into. So this this is a set of my bloods that I had done, um, probably 2 or 3 years ago when I was, uh, I was well into the bodybuilding scene. Now, off the back of this, I was told that I potentially had liver damage. Um, so what this shows is three of the four, uh, major enzymes in the liver alt, LP, GT. The other is AST, and my alt is off the screen. Um, so I was told by the, uh, by Maddie checks the doctor that commented on this that I needed further, uh, analysis because I was more than likely suffering with, uh, with liver damage. So this led me down into investigating more into alt AST and PGT, uh, and bilirubin. Um, and what I found from this is that these, these metrics are not only measured in the liver, so alt is produced in the liver. All of these enzymes are produced in the liver, but Alt is also produced in the muscle. So I was weight training. I was causing lots of damage to my muscles and my alt was massively increased. And therefore this was the reason that that my alt was um, uh, was elevated. Nothing to do with liver damage. Um, uh, AST which is another one AST is found. I think, Steve, you're going to know better than me in regards to this liver and the heart. I think an LP is the liver, but also found in the bile duct, isn't it? Which helps a similar bile acids and the production of of amino acid at the assimilation of amino acids? Um, this is why LP can also be increased if we consume, uh, x amount of proteins. GT is usually a sign of uh, of excess excessive alcohol consumption. Um, and that tends to be the biggest one, I think, Steve, isn't it. Um gt in. In collaboration with another elevated elevated enzyme may show, um, harm to the liver. But I know Steve's been working hard on some, um, on some information, and so I let him. I'll stop sharing this and I'll let Steve share his. But it's, um. Okay. It's just more, more evidence in regards to how not to interpret specific blood tests. Yes, yes. I mean, it's a good idea to plug my book, by the way, which is Guide to Blood Tests, which you can get from Amazon. I've got it on the screen there. You can get it as a paperback. You can also get it from Apple. Uh, anyway. Yeah. So yes, yes. ALP you know you asked about ist that that's in the muscles but also in the heart as well. So um I will screen share. Yes. GT is important for transferring amino acids across cell membranes and also as part of the biliary system. And it's huge to, uh, to indicate what's going wrong. So if there's an obstruction, it would be elevated. Now, uh, this has never been seen before. So I will do a screen share. So you can't see all the notes yet because I haven't actually finished it yet. But what I realized is we can be pretty small with Bloods. Uh, I'm going to share it now, so it makes some sense. And just to explain what they stand for. You going up alt uh alt alanine uh, aminotransferase AST is, um, my goodness, what's ast? We've got alt GT gamma glutamine transferase isn't it? Um, LP what is LP? Steve I can't remember. Uh, it's alanine aminotransferase. Yes it is alanine. Yeah. What's the other one? LP is, uh, alkaline phosphatase. Alkaline. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, uh, let me just screen share, if you don't mind. I will do that now. Uh, I'm trying to get a snapshot of it. So yes, what I noticed was you can get a pattern. So when people are looking at pattern and pattern B, for instance with lipids you can look at just the pattern. So when you do bloods for the liver, if you don't have ALP and GT and you just have alt in AST, this is a healthy liver pattern with the four margins. And if you can see, uh, and sorry for the people on the audio, the viral hepatitis. The pattern is hugely different. And, uh, basically, you know, the levels of AST and Alt are elevated. But, um, if you look at GT and ALP, they're also in a certain pattern, like a step down pattern. So you could get all four of these if you're worried about your liver. Basically you need to get AST, Alt, ALP and GT all done together. So cirrhosis of the liver uh, has ast in alt elevated. So does alcoholic fatty liver and so does nonalcoholic fatty liver. So if you are told that you got ast alt elevated well it could be all of these things if you don't have the other two measurements. But if someone said well you got elevated ast alt and also highly elevated GT ah, that's possibly cirrhosis. If someone said yes, but you've got elevated asked a lot. And also imagine it is very elevated. ALP and GTI about the same then that's a fatty liver. So I've done these diagrams basically so you can see that we've got a pattern. Uh, I will do a video, a proper video, sort of saying I think this is a different way of looking at stuff. Um, I'm going to thank Jonathan, actually, for, uh, getting on my case about some bloods because I, I used a little bit of ChatGPT to rewrite something, and then I added my own, um, thoughts to it, and I think he thought that was cheating. Well, some of what they say on ChatGPT is correct. The only way it's good, though, is when you know when it isn't correct and you can interrogate it, and then you add the bits or you rewrite the bits. It's got wrong. And I thought, well, why don't I actually put this into a sort of a bite size picture, which is purely novel work. No one else has done it. No one else has ever done that, ever. And, um, so there you go. That's the easiest way to diagnose liver diseases from your blood isn't in my book. But I will do a new book, basically, um, you know, volume two with, uh, a bit more information in. But that's that's that's it really. Fantastic. I've been working hard on Avenue. Well, yeah. I mean, one of the one of the things is that, you know, if you're doing plots, uh, and I don't know if I've got it, actually, which I think people would find interesting if I can find it, which is about the, um, misinterpretation of thyroid stimulating hormone as well. So let me just see if I can find that. Why are you doing that? I mean, bilirubin is is another good metric to use, isn't it, because it shouldn't be. Um, that's produced from the breakdown of the red blood cells, but it shouldn't be found in the blood. The liver works hard to keep it in the blood. So if that's in the bloodstream, that's usually a sign of liver disease. And what else is there? Albumin. I think if albumin is low, that could be a sign of liver disease. Also, um, if and if and if it's also high in the urine. Um, so a couple of other metrics to look at there. But I think the point to this is that we shouldn't rely on one metric. We need to look at all of the data. Um, when I had those bloods done, my, uh, not not the doctor, but the doctor looking at, um, those bloods was incredibly worried that I had, uh, severe liver disease. Um, but I was super fit and healthy. I'd been living this lifestyle a long time, and I knew that there was nothing wrong. But that's just proof positive that it isn't just one metric that we need to look at. We need to look at everything in complex. Um, yeah. I've got this other thing to show you if people are interested. Um, we've got five minutes, so let me just, uh, let me just do this. If I can get rid of the the client's name. Because obviously that's important and that's showing. And, uh, it was just something that I thought really showed how they think about the Bloods all wrong. Uh, I haven't lost too many people, so that's okay. And I again, apologize to those listening to the audio, but I'm just going to quickly screen share. But I will explain the screen share as I do it. Okay. From my desktop. Uh, let's do that. So all right let's see if that works. You should be able to see someone's blood here, but not their name. All right. Uh, they've been told since 2020 that their TSH is a problem because it's subclinical. Okay, so the range it's showing is 0.4 to 4. And in 2020 it was 0.34. So yes subclinical. That just is a posh way of saying it's under the normal range. And in 2021 it was 0.33. Later on in 2021 it's 0.37. Then it went down to 0.13, 0.17 0.27 in 2023 by the end of it. Now, if this was the thought experiment that I said to him, now they're telling you that's no good, that's rubbish. But what is the point of thyroid stimulating hormone? Well, it's to produce or get your thyroid to produce T4 essentially. Well look at the range of T4 and the range is 10 to 20. Now in in 2024 years ago it was producing 17 pica moles per liter. So that's 17, 1615 1714, 15. So that's pretty much perfect. It's right within the range between 10 and 20. And I said, now let's imagine you were the first person that ever had bloods taken. I would look at that over the last four years and I would say to myself, wow, this guy's T4 is right within range. Let's say we knew that range, and there's no clinical presentation, by the way, is absolutely fine. Um, therefore, the TSH I've just taken must be perfect. That's what I would suggest, because for four years you've had these really what we now call a pejorative term, a low amount of TSH. Well, actually, for this person, it's it's perfect because it's doing exactly what it should do. And this is blood's all over when you start looking at the context. Quito locale, especially Carnival. The ranges make no sense. And then when you start talking about, um, clinical experience. And this is the big bugbear that I've got, especially with the American Diabetes Association. We are not we, but everybody in the health profession is ignoring clinical experience and going with what they call evidence based. Now people think, well, evidence based. There's got to be better. Actually, that just means government funded surveys. It's not evidence of people and results. Clinical experience is people and results and they're ignoring those. So this this guy, for instance, he was uh, it was great. And he said, you can share this because I think it's really interesting, but hopefully you'll you'll see what I mean when people say high or low or this is, uh, you know, high risk. Well, is it in the context of the way we're eating, is that TSH subclinical? Well, yes, if you believe the ranges, but is it the right level? Yes, because it's enough to do what it needs to do. And that's how we need to start thinking about it. So that's my two pennies. Yeah. Fantastic. And that's usually an indication also that um, everything is working uh, the way that it should, isn't it, in regards to we, when we look at insulin, for example, when insulin is low, we need less insulin to carry out said work. And it's the same with TSH. We need less TSH, um, because thyroid hormone is doing its thing. Um, and interestingly, and we've spoken about this recently, I think, Stephen, we, um, T3 becomes lower when we look at. But TSH also remains low, which means the body isn't trying to increase more production of T4 because it's created enough, uh, for the body to carry it all of its functions. But we use T3 to carry pyruvate through, um, the pyruvate complex. Yes. Yeah. So it's when we're not consuming carbohydrates, we don't require pyruvate to do this. So there's less T3 required. So we always need to take a pinch of salt when we look at the bloods. And yeah I would strongly advise if you do have any questions with with Bloods. Um get Steve to take a look. I use, uh, a company called Madix and I've recently just ordered, um, a big list of stuff to test, so it'll be interesting. And we'll put these once, once I have the results. Will get this on on one of the lives. And we can go through everything and Steve can can rip them apart then, because I'm hoping my cholesterol is still double figures. And it'd be interesting to see where where my liver enzymes and kidney function and so on and so forth. I know kidney function is a big, big bugbear of Steve's in regards to the EGFR. Coming back to that, quickly, see if I know you've touched base and I know we're out of time, just really quickly. What is the best metric, um, to look at kidney function if not EGFR cyst that in C there we are. Fantastic. Brilliant. So EGFR, as Stevens mentioned before, is uh, is is estimated. Yes. Which is what the Lily stands for. But since that in C is a direct measurement. But by the way, LDL is also a calculation, not direct measurement. And also HbA one C is a calculation, not direct measurement. And they are the three metrics that cause the most problem in this community. Uh, so there's a commonality there. It could just be coincidence. I'm going to leave with Matthew's question, which says, Stephen, are you releasing an audiobook of your book, How to Be Carnivore in the future? Uh, I am trying to do it. I'm trying to read it myself. Uh, my guide to blood tests is on audible. Um, but, uh, you know, I it's just me. So it's expensive to get an a writer. So my how to be carnivore book, which is the, uh, I'm narrating myself, so that's a nightmare. Um, but hopefully get there. And, um. Well, that's a great question. So thanks, everyone for listening. I will stop the recording to the cloud now and hopefully we'll see you again.