11th Aug: Q&A, Diabetes, Protein Requirements, Ketones, MCT and Weight Loss

Stephen and Richard answer questions about keto, organ meats such as liver, and BHBs. They discuss how to eat liver in moderation, the benefits of vitamin D testing and reference some scientific data about the carbs that are best eaten when bulking. Richard talks about recent self-experimentation results. Stephen explains how the community can help support the channel. Richard and Stephen impersonate each other and talk about their accents. They talk about how to set up local community meetups. Herbert shares a recommended magnesium supplement. Stephen talks about oxalate detox and how it can manifest in various ways. He also shares the dangers of oxalate overconsumption and why they promote an animal-based eating. There are many ways to improve insulin sensitivity, such as reducing carbohydrates and avoiding seed oils, exercising, and taking supplements like MCT oil. It's also important to avoid foods high in lectins. Inflammation can be caused by elevated insulin levels and ketones can help block an inflammatory pathway. 

The main topic of the live conversation is the amount of protein that people with diabetes should consume, with a suggested rule of thumb of 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass. Richard Smith also adds that a low-carb or carnivore diet can help reverse diabetes, and while there are supplements that can help, living a healthy lifestyle is the most important factor. One story shared is of a man who saw improvement in his diabetes after taking exogenous ketones, which increase insulin sensitivity.

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Transcript

11th August Q&A

Summary

Stephen and Richard answer questions about keto, organ meats such as liver, and BHBs. They discuss how to eat liver in moderation, the benefits of vitamin D testing and reference some scientific data about the carbs that are best eaten when bulking. Richard talks about recent self-experimentation results. Stephen explains how the community can help support the channel. Richard and Stephen impersonate each other and talk about their accents. They talk about how to set up local community meetups. Herbert shares a recommended magnesium supplement. Stephen talks about oxalate detox and how it can manifest in various ways. He also shares the dangers of oxalate overconsumption and why they promote an animal-based eating. There are many ways to improve insulin sensitivity, such as reducing carbohydrates and avoiding seed oils, exercising, and taking supplements like MCT oil. It's also important to avoid foods high in lectins. Inflammation can be caused by elevated insulin levels and ketones can help block an inflammatory pathway. 

The main topic of the live conversation is the amount of protein that people with diabetes should consume, with a suggested rule of thumb of 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass. Richard Smith also adds that a low-carb or carnivore diet can help reverse diabetes, and while there are supplements that can help, living a healthy lifestyle is the most important factor. One story shared is of a man who saw improvement in his diabetes after taking exogenous ketones, which increase insulin sensitivity.

Transcription

Speaker 1

[00.00.00]

 Hey, we are live. It's 7 p.m. in the UK here in state controlled Britain, uh, where freedom of speech tries to raise its head above the parapet without us getting closed down. And I've got with me the UK's the world's top nutritionist, as seen on TV, the Quito pro professional bodybuilder and now a fantastic athlete, Richard Smith. Hi, Richard. 

Speaker 2

[00.00.25]

 Stephen, are we doing? 

Speaker 1

[00.00.27]

 I'm doing all right. But I'm running out of things to say about you. So you're the best one in the universe. Next. Yeah, 

Speaker 2

[00.00.34]

 we'll go with that. If only. If only I should be so lucky. I should be so lucky. 

Speaker 1

[00.00.39]

Battle zone has asked the first question. How many grams of protein should a person with diabetes consume each day? And we're assuming that you're talking type two, but you could be type one, because the advice tends to be pretty much the same, which is, as a rule of thumb, let's say you want to weigh your lean body mass is £150. That's what you want to weigh. Then you would have 150g of protein and 150g of fat. As a start off, that's where you would start. And then it's trial and error after that. So you eat like that maybe 2 or 3 weeks. You feel if you have any problems, your body composition is going the wrong way. Then you could increase the fats or you could increase the proteins. Obviously, if you're on medications, you need to speak to your doctor or be very mindful of your dosage, because if you're reducing carbohydrates, then obviously you'll be reducing your need for insulin. So that's really critical that you think about the medications if you're changing your diet. Type one and type two. Obviously Doctor Richard Bernstein is a type one diabetic who wrote the fantastic book The Diabetes Solution. And his mantra really is the rule of small numbers. So if you're having huge spikes in blood sugar and then huge drops in blood sugar, that's difficult to manage, or if you've got protein effects going in, then you won't get those spikes, you won't get those troughs, and it's a lot easier to manage. And of course, don't listen to the 90 year old advice. When they first found out about insulin, they didn't really know what would happen. There's lots of papers about this. Um, you have Elliott Joslin and people of that era. They really, really did not know what would happen long term with insulin. And then they discovered a compound which would make insulin stay in the system longer because it's half life is incredible. Naturally, it's only like five parts per billion in your bloodstream. So it's a small molecule. There's not much to it. So when when you inject it. The trouble was that you had to inject it a lot. So they found this compound. Also added zinc. They called it PCI and it lasted a lot longer in the system. And people were getting insulin shock, hypoglycemia basically to low blood sugar because the insulin was hanging around. And this is where these six meals a day or the three meals and three snacks comes in. It wasn't because it's really good for your health. It's to stop you going into insulin shock. And 90 years later, they're still peddling this load of old tosh. All right, so you eat when you're hungry, stop when you're full. But just be very mindful of medications. Um, I'll hand over to Richard if he wants to add a bit, but I thought I'd have a little rant here at the beginning. 

Speaker 2

[00.03.19]

 Spot on. I think this there's a number of metrics that we can look at. I know that, um, the, the lean body mass is, is the main one to look at, but very few know that lean body mass is is is difficult unless you've had an in body composition test. Um, and as a rule of thumb, I agree one gram per pound. I also believe that we can go over if we need to look at the figures for, um, exact measurements. Uh, I say exactly. I mean, these are different, but as close to exact as we can get. Uh, we need a minimum of 0.5g per pound of lean body mass to maintain our current muscle mass, 0.82 in order to grow. And a one around one gram, as you say, uh, in all, is ideal as a round figure to to aim for. And that's typically what I aim for because we don't know or very few of us know our lean body mass. I think it's perfectly safe to aim for a gram per pound of current body weight. Um, along with equal amounts of fat. Nature provides us with a perfectly packaged present. Uh, nature provides protein and fat together, and egg, for example, is almost equal ratios of protein and fat and so on and so forth. It's very difficult to gain weight when you consume animal proteins. Again, it's the carbohydrate that elicits that insulin response. Uh, carbohydrates are not going to they do elicit an instant response. But this is what insulin is there for. Insulin Insulin's job is to drive amino acids into cells, not glucose. It does this. And again, as you mentioned in a natural state, the half life is incredibly short, like a couple of minutes. Um, that's how deadly, um, or how how deadly excessive glucose levels are in the blood. The insulin is elevated and elicited in order to pull the glucose out of one's blood, to store it, uh, in muscle or the liver as glycogen in order to save your life. So this is how detrimental sugar is. But ballpark figure one gram per pound, I think is is always a safe measurement. But as Stephen says, from there we can then manipulate in regards to to goal dependency. But one gram per pound I go with. 

Speaker 1

[00.05.20]

 That's great, Richard. Thank you. I like the way you add to this. Right. Uh, next question is JP man. Question is, what's the best story you've heard about someone benefiting from taking serial stem enhance? Uh, just for full transparency, I put a lot of my health benefits and looking younger than I should. Here I am at 60 personally, by the way. I think this is what humans should look like. Uh, in fact, possibly even better. I don't think I look good for my age. I think I look my age and people of 60 who don't look good for their age. Let's take someone completely random, like Doctor Gregor. Doctor who never had any patients, by the way. Uh, yeah, he's got the name, but he never had any patients. He's written a book about how not to age, and he's eight years younger than me, and he looks about ten years older. Right. So, um, but what do I think? Um, stem in hearts? I mean, send me to retired Bob Springs to mind. He took stem enhance. He got rid of gout after 30 years. It was down to carnivore, but the last lingering pains only went when he went on to stem enhance. I obviously use my own story. I'm completely convinced by it. Uh, Emma, who narrated my audiobook, actually had, uh, some skin that was, uh, continually dry. I think that as many years, a couple of decades and completely cleared up on stem enhance. So it just activates the CD 34 plus, uh, stem cells and stem cells, which differentiate into whatever they can, and you just increase the release of them into your bloodstream. So I would say quite a few things actually, but I don't really want to be here to push in Stem enhance. If you're interested in Stem enhance then I'll put a link into the chat, which is great. Um, I like it. Hi, coach. What supplements would you recommend to help reverse diabetes while following a kind of a diet? Do you want to dive in the rich? 

Speaker 2

[00.07.14]

 Yeah. So, like, first and foremost, um, just by living a carnivore diet is that's going to be the fundamental. And you can do so just by doing this. Um, diabetes is a state of insulin resistance, uh, where the pancreas would be working all the time. Increased insulin to the point that, uh, now blood glucose levels are rising in the blood because it can't increase anymore. And this, this process occurs over a number of years, 10 to 15 years. So when we are diagnosed with diabetes, for example, type two, uh, this began the insulin resistance began 10 to 15 years prior. Um, the best way to, to to do this is to reduce our requirement for, for insulin, i.e. reduce carbohydrate or completely remove carbohydrate is essential for life and make no bones about that. We do need carbohydrate or glucose, I should say. Uh, but we make all the glucose that we need through the process of gluconeogenesis, which is where we make glucose through almost a reverse pathway of glycolysis. But, uh, 1 or 2 enzymes, maybe three enzymes, which are slightly different. Um, but we basically turn um non carbohydrate substrates into glucose, i.e. lipid and and protein. So we make all the glucose that we need live in. A low carb, ketogenic or carnivore lifestyle will start to see insulin levels drop almost overnight, and now you're on your way to reverse in type two diabetes. Um, supplements you can add in. Yes, there are supplements that can help. Um, do you need them? Is the question. Again, I can't reinforce this enough. Living the lifestyle is number one. Uh, and I'll briefly tell us a quick story in regards to a customer that came to see me. I've mentioned this once or twice in the past, but a gentleman came to see me who was maybe in his 80s, I think, um, an elderly gentleman, type two diabetic being type two for quite some time. His blood glucose levels, I think was something like 27. They hadn't been below 17 for over a decade. Um, he wasn't interested in making dietary changes. Um, and he asked me if there was any supplements that could help. And I presented him with, uh, exogenous ketones, beta hydroxybutyrate, uh, beta hydroxybutyrate increases insulin sensitivity. So he took this for a number of weeks, came back in and reported that his blood glucose was well below 17, I think. I think it was 7 or 8, actually. Um, and it hadn't been below 17 for, for something like over a decade off the back of that. He then made the dietary changes and decided to adopt a ketogenic lifestyle, and to this day he is now ketogenic and currently free of type two diabetes. And this is environmental. Also, if he goes back to eating the compounds that he was prior, this will come back, um, diet and lifestyle number one. But um, exogenous ketones and MCT, they will increase insulin sensitivity, um, to a degree so they can help. But diet and lifestyle is always going to be number one. Avoid the carbohydrates. Keep keep away from the seed oils. Seed oils high in oxidized omega six linoleic acid will cause more insulin resistance than carbohydrates do. Linoleic acid is found in all sorts of compounds. Um, all sorts of processed foods. Uh, it's cooked. It's used to cook in everywhere that we go, every restaurant. Uh, this is why when you eat out, you need to make sure that you tell them that you have a slight allergy to seed oils and you want to preference. They either cook with no oil or but the tallow roe. Um, so those are the biggest levers you can pull live a low carb ketogenic lifestyle. Lots of animal proteins, lots of natural fats. Um, avoid the seed oils. Uh, avoid the foods high in lectins also because they will bind to insulin receptors and cause a five times higher insulin response. And should you wish any, you know, further help. Coconut oil, MCT oil, or exogenous ketones can help. 

Speaker 1

[00.11.04]

 That's brilliant. Yeah. I'm going to add a supplement which isn't really the supplement supplement E, which is exercise, because you could look at it a different way, make yourself more insulin sensitive. So what happens when you exercise? Cell membrane um has extra glute for transporters translocated from inside the cell to the membrane just from exercise, which is where this comes from. Now this is not saying that you have to go absolutely health. However, if you're someone that's having difficulty moving and stuck in a chair all day getting out of the chair, uh, lifting your legs up, doing anything that raises your heart rates will signal that you need more glucose into the cell, and the glute for transporter will translate, and you will allow entry of glucose into the cell a lot easier. Insulin sensitivity can also be improved by, uh, early morning sunlight. I know Richard talks about nitric oxide, but also that, uh, activation of vitamin D3. And if you have a little chunk of cheese, so you get yourself a nice bit of K2 or some sort of, um. Fatty substance like butter, for instance. Then you'll find that that will actually increase your insulin sensitivity as well, which, uh, which is there's a bit of a convoluted pathway which I'm not going to go into. If you want me to go into it, then I'll do a video because I am going to be doing a video about interesting and different ways to improve your insulin sensitivity. So look out for that. Um, but the best thing, absolute best thing is not eating carbohydrates. And both of us have got hundreds, if not nearly a thousand stories between us of people reversing type two diabetes or managing type one diabetes much, much easier with this way of eating. Now we've got a question. It's almost set up to show Richard at his best. Uh, and that is from Invite wedding. Uh, why does our body tend to retain water when it's an inflammatory state? 

Speaker 2

[00.13.03]

 Aha. Fantastic question. So when we're in a state of inflammation, it's usually caused through, uh, elevated insulin. Again, a lot of these compounds that we consume will do this. Vegetable oil seed oils, this oxidized omega six linoleic acid, excessive amounts of carbohydrates, glucose, etc. when insulin is elevated. And this is when the Stevens gonna laugh because this one, I repeat quite a lot. The body retains sodium, um, and it does. Insulin will pull sodium from four points in the nephrons in the kidneys, back into the blood and wherever water goes. uh uh sodium for whatever sodium goals water followers. So this is what leads to, uh, part of an inflammatory state and the points in the nephrons, this four points in the nephrons, uh, the proximal convoluted tubule, which will absorb around 60%, the ascending loop of Hennelly, which is around 30%. Then we've got the distal convoluted tubule, which is around 7%. And then the collecting ducts, which is 2 to 3%. So this is caused by, uh, elevated insulin. When we drop our carbohydrates, when we remove the vegetables, when we remove the compounds that are cause in this instant resistance, insulin drops. Boom. The kidneys release all of this excess sodium. And along with the, uh, excess water and inflammation. Um, so so that's one mechanism. Um, the other one also. I mean, that's, that's to do with retention of water. The other reason that we will block, uh, inflammation is when we produce ketones, uh, ketones will block a pathway called Nlrp3 inflammasome. And Nlrp3 inflammasome is one of the pathways that, uh, is attributed to inflammation within the body. Um, when we do this, we block that pathway and inflammation goes away. So it's plain simple when we eat clean and healthy, when we avoid these toxic compounds, these vegetable seed oils and excessive amounts of carbohydrate, the body heals and repairs. And we we recover from this inflammatory state. 

Speaker 1

[00.15.03]

 Hey. That's brilliant. Uh, thank you, by the way, to everybody for the massive amount of questions, which is. Which is really good, actually, I am really enjoying that. Uh, I haven't seen any, uh, super chats. So, um, let's go on to the next thing. Oh, by the way, I mean, think that there's loads of sort of knock on effects to the inflammatory response. So, um, we could go into that, but there are too many questions. So I think I think Richard's covered the main one. So that's really good, right? Laura is saying, um, hi guys. I'd love to hear any advice or suggestions for setting up a local carnival group in my in my town. Thanks, Laura. Um, Richard, actually, you do 1 to 1 things, don't you? Which you might want to mention. Yes, I do. So obviously we do the school group online, which is a fantastic community, but I do hold, um, local courses, and I have recently set up a local carnival community meetup once a month. Um so these work on two different, two different things. I mean, they're part of the same thing, but one of them is an eight week course held on a Thursday, uh, around 6 p.m.. Um, but for the people who have already done the course, we have a like a monthly meet up, which we've just started back again. The best way is to start mixing with people on social media. Um, start getting in some networks, making some connections. Reach out to some people. Uh, put it out there on your local Facebook groups. So for me, it's I live in a small town called Neath in South Wales. So there's around five different groups on Facebook. So I'll go into that group and I'll mention that we're starting this, this low carb, ketogenic carnivore, uh, group, um, meet up once a monthly meetup group, if you like. I list the benefits in there, you know, so it's this way of living will educate you in regards to helping with inflammation, arthritic pains, um, gut issues and so on and so forth. Um, I'll run that in each group, um, once. So there's five groups, so I'll run that in there over the course of because a lot many of the people in your local town will be in all of these groups, or at least 2 or 3 of them. So I'll run that for and this is free. This is just a simple post that you pop into Facebook. I'll go in and bump it up occasionally, or I'll tag certain people into it's just continuously being bumped to the top. Then the next week I'll do another post in a different group. And again, you know, many of these people cross-pollinate that in many of these other groups. So over the course of 4 or 5 weeks is covered, you know, thousands and thousands of local people, um, story posts reaching out to, to local people and just making connections, even if it's just 2 or 3 of you, you can start and you can go to, um, you know, a local restaurant, for example. You can just book a table, you can do your little meeting over, over a dinner one evening, um, carnivore dinner, obviously without the vegetables. And that goes without saying. And then, you know, you start posting pictures, you start posting pictures about your little monthly meetup. Um, open it to everybody, make people aware that it's there. It's available to be available to be opened up. You could also tag in people such as myself and Steven on social media. I'd be more than happy to share that. If you want to tag me in as a story post, you know you could say, hey, I'm setting up a group in X town or village. This is the time and date. Um, you know, use a link if you're interested. I'll be happy to share that you start by making these small connections. Uh, and to put this into perspective, when I held the very first one, um, you know, there was two people. And then next time it was 3 or 4, um, last time we did it. And this doesn't sound like very much, but I live in a very small town. We had 23 people turned up to, uh, to the last one, um, with another 20 or 30 who just couldn't make that that day in time. Um, obviously we can't accommodate everyone. And then this opens up the option of maybe doing alternative nights, different nights, but then it's a lot of time and effort in order to do this. Not what I do, I try to. 

Speaker 2

[00.19.04]

 Build it up a little bit. So there's it isn't just a meal every week. And quite often what I do is I will hire out, um, local venues. So I'll reach out to, um, local. There's a church basically that I've done much of my speaking events in. Um, I kindly supplied them with over 30 or 40 chairs for their church. Um, so when I asked if I could rent out the building, they give it to me for free, which is brilliant, and I couldn't appreciate that. I couldn't be more appreciative. So we held that there. And I tend to do an education piece. So people come in and I will explain the benefits of living the lifestyle. Uh, I'll run through a presentation, for example, because many people are not they're not knowledgeable in regards to how damaging carbohydrate is, uh, or how damaging excessive amounts of vegetables or vegetables in general. So you do these education pieces, then you start to chat amongst yourselves and listen to everyone else's story. And before you know it, the word spreads. And and I'm sure you'll you'll build a very successful, um, carnival group. You know, the other option is you could come to these events that we're doing to network with people there who may be, you know, they may live close to you and or happy to travel. As we said, this event next weekend with, um, uh, Phil Ascot's event that we do in the ancestral Health. Um, Stephen and I are also speaking at the carnival conference, uh, in, in September, September the 14th and 15th, a two day event, the Cliff College food and accommodation included. When you start attending these events and you mingle with like minded people, you build these connections. And I think that's probably the best way to move forward in regards to building a carnival community. 

Speaker 1

[00.20.48]

 Yeah. That's true. Uh, the chat is lighting up. Absolutely. Um, because somebody popped in last week to cover for you. And at the beginning, Doctor Labs very kindly did an impression of you, Richard. So do you want to have a pop? Um, trying to doctor ABS impression. 

Speaker 2

[00.21.08]

 Oh, I couldn't. He's far too intelligent for me. I try, I try to to block my welshness, shall we say, or the Welsh accent? I've been told recently that I do speak differently around different people. Uh, I'm apparently incredibly. Well, she. If I'm around another Welsh person and a lot less if I'm speaking to people such as yourself. But yeah, it's. Yeah, it's my accent. I can't do much with it, unfortunately, but. Yeah. Yeah, 

Speaker 1

[00.21.37]

 I want a bit. I mean, I'm a bit worried. I'm, I'm seeing abs in a couple of weeks and I'm going down to London, so, you know, I mean, I might be talking like that or a bit like Michael Caine, I don't know, but anyway. Um. Sorry, abs. No impression from Richard or myself. 

Speaker 2

[00.21.52]

 I'll work on one. I'll work on one for next week. 

Speaker 1

[00.21.55]

 It's just too smooth. Uh, as for my advice for setting up a local carnival group in town. Exactly the same. If you've got social media put put feelers out. You could put, um, leaflets up in the post office or, you know, just local noticeboards there are there are carnivores out there. You'd be very, very surprised. And it's also heartening when when that happens. Right. Okay. Herbert, a great supporter. Thank you very much. Uh, you have put last time you, you wanted to share a link to magnesium with me, but I mistakenly left a few seconds too soon. Yeah. You shouldn't leave until the end of the class. Would you care to share it here? I have, I'll put it in the chat. And that was by Thorne. Which is? They have a good reputation, and it's quite a good magnesium citrate malate mix. But, um, you can also look at Richard's website for sort of electrolytes. Uh, let's have a go. Uh, Marianne, question, question, question. The term dumping oxalates. Well, we don't call it that. We call it oxalate detox because it is a detoxification process. What is it just told you and how does it show itself? Well, it shows itself in many forms, uh, little crystals appearing in unexpected places So, for instance, as a former oxalate dumping or detox skeptic, I was shot in the foot when a little crystal popped out of my eye. And, uh, that was terrible. So a couple of days before, it looked like I had a line going from my eye down to my cheek, which was like a sort of blockage. And then I had a crystal, and, uh, I used to eat veg. I grow my own veg. That's how I know I used to have to kill a lot of animals. Just a very little aside of trying to talk to somebody about this the other day. And I just felt an incredible wave of shame at the amount of animals I killed because I was trying to grow potatoes and raspberries and carrots, and I just ended up it was like Fort Knox, and I was buying pesticides without a care, without thinking, well, I'm killing all these bugs and butterflies and ants and bugs in the soil, and rabbits are not going to be, um, particularly healthy if they get hold of the raspberries. And it was just I didn't even realize and did not even realize. So maybe some of these vegans who think they're doing great work were a bit brain foggy like I was, or just not putting two and two together, but literally, you know, my potatoes got whitefly, so I had to get something to kill the whitefly. And then there was Green Fly and then, uh, the carrots were attacked by something. Oh, boy. So yes. Anyway, coming back to oxalates. So oxalates can be quite painful. Some people, like, have big toe pain and think it's gout, which it could be, but it could be gout from oxalates. So there's lots of things that can happen. Um, I'm sure Richard would like to dive in with a bit more detail. 

Speaker 2

[00.24.49]

 Yeah. So I mean it's oxalates they, they found in some of the foods that we eat. Spinach and turmeric for example, uh, oxides break down into tiny little needles called RAF aids, which find their way into the joints and, uh, and tissues around the body. They're incredibly harmful to the body. If they are left in circulation, they'll cause lots of issues. So the body pulls them out of circulation in the same way that it does with with glucose, and it drives it into tissues within the cells. Excessive amounts can lead to thyroid problems, breast cancer, um, kidney stones, so on and so forth. Um, when we begin a clean where you've lived in low carb, ketogenic or carnivore lifestyle, now that we're no longer consuming these compounds that contain oxalates, the body begins to, to to to detox, as Stephen says, um, this can manifest itself in forms of a rash, joint pain, muscle weakness, bladder problems, diarrhea, itchy sore gums, so on and so forth. Um, you can negate this by consuming some oxalate to slow down this this dumping or detoxing, um, Process. But the best thing to to do with this, in my opinion at least, um. Is, is to supplement with a potassium citrate citrate as a high affinity to oxalate. It'll bind to the citrate and allow it, um, safe passage out of the body. And the reason I say, uh, potassium or the over calcium is that when we are oxalate, dumping or detoxing, the body quite often goes into a state of hyperkalemia, which is a state of low potassium. So why not supplement or add in additional potassium in the form of citrate to combat this? Uh, the issue is if we add in calcium, then calcium can block the absorption of magnesium. And it also hinders, um, the, the absorption of potassium. And it puts out, uh, the sodium re-assure. So the whole, uh, mineral or electrolyte balance within the body can be knocked out of whack. Should we consume the incorrect mineral? So potassium citrate is one of the best, uh, antidotes for aiding with oxalate detox. Now, this is cyclical. It does tend to come. You can go 3 or 4 weeks and not have a problem, and suddenly there's a big flare up. Just take some potassium citrate. Or if you do, if you are going to do it through diet. Um, my preference personally would be dark chocolate because why not? If we could put something in when we put some oxalate from dark chocolate, dark chocolate. This can slow down this process. It can last many years. Um, but how damaging are these rafts? How damaging are oxalates? Well, let's put this into perspective. A pack of spinach within your local supermarket comes in 200 gram pouches. Uh, many studies done on the amount of oxalate in spinach have found that there's as much as 7 to 800mg of oxalate per 100g. Many are lower. So this is towards the top end. But that means the average pack of spinach or a pack of spinach could contain as much as 15 or 1600 milligrams of oxalate. Now, why is this bad? This is bad because there have been many documented cases of death occurring from oxalate, um, exposure or overconsumption at the level of 3000mg. So that is the equivalent of of two packs of these cases are very low income Parecen to to the top end. Uh, many more have been found. From 4000 to 15,000mg of oxide will kill you, uh, almost in an instant. This is how toxic these compounds are. So this is why Stephen and I tend to promote this way of living. An animal based way of living over consuming things like, um, spinach and kale and turmeric. Uh, and as Stephen assured me, say many times in the past, turmeric is not your friend. And maybe we can get into that if we have time later. 

Speaker 1

[00.28.42]

 That's great and Marianne has done a super chat. Thank you for the great reply. Um, just publicly, Richard, I think you should monetize just so you can get the super chats because there are a couple of people want to give you money. So, um, I would actually have a look at that on your channel because I think, you know, they appreciate 

Speaker 2

[00.29.01]

 you know, how it all helps. Yeah. 

Speaker 1

[00.29.03]

 Yeah. I appreciate your, your time and everything else. Right. Um, I think this is Lucy, if I remember right. Anyway, my healthy supplies. I finished reading the Jeff Bolles book you recommended on school. This is to me, by the way. Rich. Have you ever tried or are you going to try the high dose vitamin D3 protocol? Yes, I am. Uh, and I did a benchmark vitamin D3 test, which is not the active form, by the way, but it never is when you first do a vitamin D3 test. I did it in March and we'll do another one tomorrow morning. It's baseline. And then I am going to look at doing this D3 protocol. Obviously if people are interested in that, you have to look at your magnesium status because you don't want to be deficient in magnesium. There's a few other things as well. Make sure you have K2 because D3 doesn't work on its own. You need K2 to activate things like Osteo Calcium and Matrix MGP, which are the two things that stop the calcium going into the, uh, walls of the arteries and actually get to the bone, those sort of things. There is more to it than just taking D3, but initially I will be taking D3. I have plenty of K2 in my um. Food. So that's not a big problem. And I think I am in the sunlight enough. So if you are at 62 degrees north and you sunbathe for 30 minutes. So that's Finland, by the way, you do full body sunbathing. Within 30 minutes you have 20,000 IU's of D3 generated, right? So I'm not taking anywhere near that amount. So the reason I'm going to do this is because I think March was the beginning of summer, and I had very low levels of D3. Um, the inactive form at 25. So I will then now after having a summer which we have had a bit of, I will then do my baseline at D3 and see what happens. And I may do things later on a bit more nuance for instance, like uh, or load magnesium tests to see what's happening in my magnesium and iodine ionized calcium tests as well. There's a few other things. So anyway, yes, I'm interested in that. And I will be looking at that and going into more detail about the whole thing, because one of the things is as you go downstream and you start looking at osteo calcium and uh, the uh carboxylate and the under carboxylate, as osteo calcium is released from the bone, it has a knock on effect, which is fantastic for insulin resistance. Yes. Well, it isn't insulin resistance, really, but that's what people call it. You get more insulin sensitive. Uh, so there is a lot more to it. But anyway. Right. Um, that wasn't a question to me. And I did speak to Richard before we started because I want to talk to him about it as well, because, uh, he's he's the guy when we talk about biochemistry as well. So, Matthew, what is generally the maximum amount of liver you could recommend to a client per week? So vitamin A and copper isn't extremely high. That's a really good question by the way. One of the nuances of vitamin D3 is a problem with too much liver, because vitamin A actually beats down your level of, uh, vitamin D3, which is an interesting fact, which may have been one of the reasons why Paul Saladino, the ex carnivore M.D., had a bit of a problem. Um, I love Richard's answer about liver. I'm just going to be really basic. You don't have to have any liver. You do not have to have organ meats. But I also understand why people do eat liver, because it is very nutrient dense. They might want a little bit of extra vitamin A, and it's certainly better than supplementing. Both of us are the same about supplements, by the way. You can get it naturally. That is the best way. Like I just said, 20,000. I use of vitamin D3 in half an hour of sunbathing is just amazing, isn't it? So you don't have to eat all the mates. Now I like organ meats or I eat them, but I don't eat them very often. And I'm going to hand over to Richard because I think he's got a really nice analogy about the size of the animal, the size of the 

Speaker 2

[00.33.03]

 liver. So awesome question as always, Matthew. Look. And there's a number of things to look at. This vitamin A from animal proteins is very different also from vitamin A from supplementation. So these are two very different things. Many of the studies that show vitamin E toxicity are done on supplementation form, um and not the true form of RET. And also so there's a there's a disconnect there for the start. Does that mean that we can eat as much as we want? Look, I'll be inclined to say no. Um, but we need to look as nature intended. We wouldn't just eat liver if we were hunters. You know, through our evolutionary period. And we were hunters. We were carnivores. We weren't just carnivore. We were hyper carnivore. We would have caught and killed an animal. We would have eaten everything within that animal. We wouldn't have just caught and killed an animal to eat liver. Now, much of the reported liver toxicity comes from polar explorers, where they were all consuming polar bear liver, which has over a thousand times more retinol or vitamin E than a cow, for example. So again, there's a there's a second disconnect there. Now, when we consume a pig or a cow or, you know, a lamb, for example, we we consume the whole animal as a tribe. We consume the whole animal. The organ meats make up very a very small proportion comparative to the muscle meat. So that means we need very little of the organ meats. So how much, you know, should we consume or what is the maximum eat as nature intended. You don't need an awful lot. A tiny little sliver of liver per week is going to be plenty. You don't even need to consume it every day. Um, that said, you know, if you are consuming lots of the other muscle meats, your requirement for the organ meats are going to be a lot less. As Steven rightly says, you don't have to consume organ meats. They are highly nutrient dense, but eat them as nature intended. So, you know, predominate your plate, if you like, with, with the organ meats, with, with the muscle meat. Sorry. And, you know, proportionately, uh, add in the, the organ meats. Now, what I do, I go to my local butcher. My butcher will make me a 90, uh, to 10% mix of chuck beef with, with liver, for example, you know, once a week or I may put heart into coenzyme Q10 or kidney for diamine oxidase, or it may be a blend of of some of these highly nutrient dense, but not, not essential. Um, now when it comes to to copper toxicity, again, eat as nature intended, uh, much of copper toxicity reports are also done on supplementation. Now when we consume copper, copper binds to a protein in the body called metallic onion. Uh, and we need zinc also to activate this. Now, where can we find this magical compound of zinc? Well, it's in the in the animal proteins that we're consuming the contain the copper. So therefore any copper consumption from organ meats is no longer a concern if we're consuming, um, the muscle meats or if we're consuming the organ meat with the muscle meat with adequate zinc, then the zinc will help bind the copper to metallic in the iron and allow it not to be absorbed in excessive amounts in the body. Nature provides us with everything that we need. We come along as man and think that we know best. We cut the fact off our animal proteins. Um, we do all of these silly things. We make manmade chemicals. Nature doesn't make mistakes. Eat as nature intended. Don't just consume organ meats. Have a fair blend as nature intended of muscle meat to organ meat. And just rest assured, if you are eating enough muscle meat, then there's going to be enough zinc to offset any toxicity of the vitamin E and and the copper. Um, for me, the amount of liver that I consume weekly is, is a tiny amount. And I'm talking a tiny sliver once or twice a week, highly nutrient dense. But again, as Stephen says, not required. 

Speaker 1

[00.36.53]

 Thank you. Yes. And just for those that are interested in the geeky numbers behind the scenes, Richard has 61 people on his channel watching right now, and I have 60, so. Wow. Uh. That's good. Thank you. That's really good. 123 people watching live at the moment, which is really, really great. Thank you so much. And don't forget obviously you can watch it whenever if you're watching on the playback, you're not live and not getting the questions answered that you might have. But anyway, here we go, Luke is saying, and it's full rich, could you confirm if your BHB flavoured sachets will break a fast? Also, would you both say hi to my daughter Phoebe? Hello daughter Phoebe. Hello, Phoebe. You know, she was my motivation for going carnivore and supported me 100%. 

Speaker 2

[00.37.39]

 A fantastic, incredible story. Luke. It'd be brilliant to hear more about your story. Family support is incredibly important. Is is incredibly difficult to to try to make these changes and live this lifestyle. If you don't have the support from your family. So kudos to Phoebe for doing that and congratulations to you both. Um, yes. They do not break or nor they do not break a fast. They should say, uh, BHP will not break a fast, BHP will only enhance a fasted state. So when we're in a fasted state, the body increases the amount of ketones in circulation. And this is in effect what we're doing. Um, it's it's the activation of mTOR. Let's go. And mTOR complex one activation is going to break, um, a fasted state. So it isn't calories per se. It's just when we consume calories, normally it comes with a compound that's going to break or elicit that into activation. M2 and Ampk are almost like a seesaw effect. Did not an on off switch. They both always activated, but one predominates. All the other MCT in the form of C8, and exogenous ketones will not break a fast. The electrolytes were not break or fast, all of which can be fantastic tools to help you prolong your fast should you wish to do that. Um, but no, I use them. That's what I've just been drinking before we came on. Uh, is the exogenous ketones. This is what allows me to pull in these big words from the back end of my brain. When I'm tired and exhausted from riding silly amounts of hours on the bike and so on and so forth. But. Yeah. Hence the red face. 

Speaker 1

[00.39.06]

 Ah. Uh, right. Okay. We've got the next question to do. That's a great question. And great, great here about Phoebe. They're supporting us so much. This is an interesting question, by the way why Richard is answering this. I'll put a link into the company I'm using to do my vitamin D testing. Um, which, incidentally isn't very checks. I do use many checks for bloods, but this is a dry blood test which is much cheaper and easier to do. And local. Uh, I went all over the UK looking online, and I really missed this story. Last week I found a lab, which was really good. And, uh, the researcher literally lives in the next street. So, um, just weird coincidence. I thought it was fake, so I'll put that in the chat as well. If you want to get your benchmark D2 D3. Right. Uh, James is asking, uh, is there a maximum amount of protein per pound of desired body weight that would be ideal for bodybuilding One gram per pound seems good for maintenance, but this question is specifically in regard to bulking. 

Speaker 2

[00.40.09]

 Yeah, look, there's no straight answer to this. And I know that's going to sound like I'm trying to escape from the question, but I'll give you some context. We need to elicit an mTOR response, uh, to activate the anabolic pathways. Uh, we can do this from as little as 1.5g of 1500 milligrams of leucine. Um, which is an amino acid found in protein. Three grams seems to be optimal. Um, this seems to be a case of diminishing returns if we go beyond this. So it's how much leucine comes with said protein, which is going to elicit, um, that, that um, mTOR response. And then we can bounce off the mTOR reset, which is typically every three and a half to four was it's around 40 to 50g of protein or six eggs, for example. That's going to be most beneficial. We can further increase this by consuming leucine prior to a meal. Um and we can also increase it. We can increase muscle protein synthesis when we co ingest protein with fat. So carbohydrate congestion with protein does not further elicit um an anabolic response or muscle protein synthesis response. And this has been proven. So carbs do not build muscle providing adequate protein is consumed. Carbs will not further augment muscle protein synthesis. What does increase muscle protein synthesis is protein consumed with fats or if you're bulking, always consume your protein with fat. So this is going to allow you to heal and repair and build quicker. Aim for at least or around I should say 3000mg or 3g of leucine per meal, maybe 3 to 4 times per day, um, one gram per pound, while Stephen says one per lean. You know, body mass is is ideal for for the average person. I've experimented all the way up to three grams, uh, per pound. Um, I noticed diminishing returns, and I found it incredibly difficult to to eat that volume all the time. Um, 1.5, I think is a safe number to go for if I'm going to put my hat on anything. Although I do believe providing the the leucine is consumed. So if the right sources of protein are consumed with, uh, with that one gram per pound, and providing that we consume an adequate fat with our protein, then I do believe that we can comfortably build muscle along with activating that m to reset. Uh, but. If you need to increase games, just maybe go for 1.5 and see how you go on. Run that for a couple of weeks and keep us updated. But always bear in mind that muscle building is a very slow process. We see these idiots on YouTube who say that they've gained stupid amounts of kilograms in a month, and it's biologically impossible even with with enhanced supplementation. Um, it doesn't happen, you know, the body will build around £0.8 per month, which means over the course of the year, if you build £10 of lean mass and the lean mass, the dry protein part is really important. The lean mass, um, that is very different to gaining body weight. We can even on the in body when we check muscle mass, this will account for minerals and water and create in within the muscle. Um, so when we look at dry protein or lean muscle mass is another metric. These are very much different things. It's easy to gain weight. I can gain five ten kilograms in four weeks if I wanted to. Um, but that's just going to be water food in transit and and fat predominantly top end. You're going to you go into add on £0.8 per month. Uh Ronnie Coleman famously said in the last year of competing that he was lucky to gain 4 to £5 and he was heavily enhanced, shall we say. So be realistic with goals. Um, consistency is key. And also look this there's another metric to this and I will be quick. Steve's apologies. What are you. Cole consume that protein with is going to have a massive impact on how that protein is is is processed within the body. If we consume it with, um, uh, rice, pasta, um, anything that contains, uh, fighting acid or lectins that is going to inhibit the absorption and the body's ability to process those nutrients, fighting acid will block the zinc. Uh, the absorption of zinc by as much as 100% zinc is essential for the production of testosterone. So absolutely counterintuitive. This is why we don't want to be consuming green beans, for example. Uh, another said compounds that are high in, in, uh, fighting acid and lectins. So eat eat the meat or eat your food as nature intended. Animal proteins with the fats. Um, aim for 1.5g per pound as a starter and come on and adjust from there. But those are the key metrics, I think. 

Speaker 1

[00.44.46]

 That's brilliant. Yeah. Actually, um, speaking to Cato Savage, by the way, you've got a monster carnival muscle, of course, in the room earlier. He knows all about building muscle, and he's brilliant. Book you could buy. Uh, he's got a fantastic advert which is running through my head because it's the bodybuilding Bible. Bible. Bible. Anyway. Right now, you're kind of all muscle, right? Um, just out of interest, Kito Savage, I'm speaking to you on our live 24 hour thing. Well, before that, before he came on, and, uh, he was saying how difficult it is as you get older to gain muscle and stay lean. And I said, you know, well, I'm coming up 60 and I'm going back to the X3 and I'm going to gain some muscle. And I think that's really true. I, I've had to forget trying to be lean to gain the muscle and looking at the ah, no, it's only biometrics impedance testing. I seem to have gained about £30 a muscle in about four months, but it's been much easier or quicker compared to last year when I haven't tried to stay lean at the same time, just out of interest. Weirdly, my body fat percentage and because obviously there's more muscle is actually lower and it's gone from 16% to 14%. And yet I feel a bit flabby. So it's a very interesting thing, even as a lay person not doing a bodybuilding show. So you can talk as much as you like, Richard, I think, uh, you know. Um, it's an interesting subject. Uh, in the chat, by the way, we do a live at 8 p.m. on a Monday night in our school group. School group, which is exclusive and is only $4 a month. So if you want to join, I'm putting a, uh, putting a link in the chat. If you're really enjoying the the questions being answered, uh, there are tons of questions. We're not going to get through them all in this first hour. Same thing to say to you. When we finish eight, we'll be doing an extra half hour over in the school community. If you want to join, use the same link that I just put in the chat. It's $4 a month. You can cancel at any time, but we will answer your questions if we can get to them, right? Next question 

Speaker 2

[00.46.50]

 Steve. Really, really quickly just to circle back to what you said. I mean, that that figure of three, £3 and four months is, is almost ties in perfectly to what we just said in regards to the 4.8, isn't it. You know, so yes, that it is. Um, when we look back at films, you know, early films, um, you know, the Tarzan films, for example, nobody would have been shredded with loads of veins. You know, they had pretty much what I've got now. I've got abs, but I'd call them washed out. I'm not ripped and shredded. I don't look like this anymore. And now I'm fitter and healthier than ever. I think we quite often get these, um, images in our head from from social media, uh, with these, these guys and girls who were ripped and shredded to the bone. I don't believe that that is optimal unless you're genetically predisposition to be incredibly lean. And I'm probably around somewhere between 9 and 11% body fat, and I'm not ripped and shredded. I don't have veins through my abs, but I'm super fit and healthy. And I think you know what you just said in regards to gaining that little bit of fat. We need to leave the vanity at the door and think about why you were training. This is for health and wellbeing. And you know, we don't need an eight pack on the abs. Uh, eight pack of the abs, you know, on the beach every year. So it's we need to be mindful about what what is possible and where the body should be when it's at a natural level of of homeostasis. 

Speaker 1

[00.48.12]

 And I think one of the things that I found interesting that you talked about, which not many do, is the destruction of fat cells, where I had a very bad appendix operation and no fat below the scar, but excess fat slightly above, which is really difficult because it's, you know, it's it's unilateral, uh, and it's. Oh, looks terrible anyway. Right? Uh, Viva Cristo Rey. I've been eating more since on carnivore. I feel like I'm always hungry. Is that normal? I eat a lot, but maybe it's because of my active lifestyle. I lift weights and work construction, and we will probably need more information than that to talk about you personally. But just broadly, um, sometimes the body is loving the extra protein or loving the extra fat. And if you've been on a calorie restricted diet or low fat diet, you have to remember that those are really clever words that the marketing department are using because you're also depriving your body of micronutrients. So all of those things you're getting less of. So all the things, all the electrolytes, we just talked about this in these, well, these compounds that are in meat and in eggs and stuff. You're deliberately not eating enough. So your body all of a sudden, because we talk about eating when you're hungry and stopping when you're full. It's saying, wow, we had all this scarcity and now we've got this abundance. There is also a protein leverage hypothesis where people will continue to eat until they get enough protein. I think there's some truth in that. I do feel that protein is such an essential nutrient. The other thing is, why are you always hungry? Well, possibly because you're not eating enough in the first to me. Or, you know, because we are sort of programmed to eat what we visualize is a meal on a plate. We have these arbitrary restrictions on us. Well, you know, when I first started carnivore, I had to have a rib eye. And I think that's very expensive, but I fancy another one. And I just listen to my body by by day nine that had stopped. All right. So it was an expensive week and two days, but I found food freedom after that. And many people call this priming and think priming is a bad thing for me. It wasn't for other people. I think they've not looked at it correctly. It's more about eating enough. That's the thing. Um, and then stopping when you're full, not stuffing yourself, uh, until you're uncomfortably full. It is trying to get those hunger signals properly in line. So that's certainly not for everybody. It's also this like, stick a butter a day. That's that's not for everybody. Um, that might work some people because it's going to help if they've been deficient in fat for 30 years and they've tanked the thyroid. The thyroid is supposed to store 50 days worth of thyroid hormone. Imagine that, that you're actually eating in such a way. We don't even have one day's worth. So this way of eating is certainly igniting all your hormones and making sure that this wonderful abundance of food is going to be eaten. That's it. Uh, so yeah, it is normal. Doesn't mean that people are listening who didn't have this? They're not normal. It's. It happens to a lot of people. Yes. You eat a lot. You lift weights, work construction. Your body is rebuilding. But. You know, I think just keep going with it. Going with your hunger, stopping when you're full. And, uh, within two weeks, maybe you should be feeling like, ah, I don't need to eat so much. This seems to be settling down now. 

Speaker 2

[00.51.53]

 Yeah, I agree, I think many of us come from a state of pure ill health, and the body is now in a state of repair. We could even be in a state of left in resistance. So we're waiting for that to, um, to repair and regenerate. The gut microbiome may not be geared up to processing adequate amounts of proteins and fats. If we've been consuming lots of carbohydrates, then the gut microbiome is geared up for processing those in order to to create energy and so on and so forth. So there's lots of metrics, but there's usually a healing phase, isn't there, Steve? You know, as we gravitate into this, this is why many find the lifestyle is is to heal some form of, of um, of illness or to improve the health and well-being. So the body is going to be doing this me before a number of weeks of Stephen says, but um, keep pushing forward. Consume your proteins with the fat. Uh, I'm confident that should you persist, then all will clear up eventually. I know some days I can eat considerably, considerably more amounts than others. Some days I can go without eating anything. Um, but I would like to think that my body is now fully healed and repaired. I've gone through this, this phase. Uh, but consistency is keys now, so stick with it. And I'm sure that we'll see positive movement moving forward. 

Speaker 1

[00.53.05]

 Yep. Uh, next question is for you, Richard in particular. Richard, do you think there is a benefit in adding supplements like creatine or something else when you are an elite athlete that focuses primarily on strength? I think this is going to be the last question I'm gonna have time for, for just just to remind people, if you want to see another half an hour, I'm going to screenshot some of your questions and try and answer them, or we're both trying to answer them in the next 30 minutes over on school. So if you want to join school, there is a link in the chat. If not, what I actually do is apply you back so you can find an audio podcast of of the next 30 minutes. But it's much better to join the school community and come on hook over there straight away. But anyway. Right, Richard, there's a question 

Speaker 2

[00.53.47]

 and Doctor ABS is, uh, is a subscriber to our group, Disney. So who knows, maybe he'll be on. Maybe we can pull him in for some quest. What he 

Speaker 1

[00.53.54]

 is the first year, the month we've been talking about cosmetics, carnival and cosmetics. The first Thursday of September, 8 p.m.. He's already booked in Doctor ABS. So, yeah, another reason to join, I think. Anyway, let's get back to this question. Any supplements like creatine or something else? When you are an elite athlete that focuses primarily on strength, is it worth doing 

Speaker 2

[00.54.15]

 so? Look, you know, as you guys know, I make supplements. Um, but I will always say that diet, uh, you know, real nutrition is, is the foundation we can thrive, not just survive, but we can thrive on living a carnivore lifestyle without any supplementation. But, you know, if we want to move and operate outside the box, i.e. if we're an athlete, if we want to run quicker, if you want a lift heavier, there are always levers that we can pull. Uh, and Doctor ABS, we know a lot about this in regards to amino profiles and specific ratios and so on and so forth. So there are constant levers that we can pull. I'm a big fan of specific supplementation. But when I say supplementation, these are compounds that exist in natural forms such as creating creatine is fantastic for fueling the fossil. Create an energy system. In fact, in the gym, carbohydrates are not the reason that you're lifting heavy. Um, there may be an element of glycogen storage and, uh, 3 to 4g of water per every one gram of glycogen that's in there. That's helping with the leverage. But as far as the power goes, as far as the strength, the energy that is not fueled by glycolysis, the glycolytic energy system, this is fueled by the phosphate freed energy system. We can replace the phosphates as they used up do in the PC system. So supplementing with creating will not only also draw water i.e more volume, which will add more leverage and make you stronger, but it will feel well those top end lifts the PC energy system. So a big fan of creating electrolytes. Also, as the muscle moves, we use electrolytes. We use things like magnesium and calcium, sodium, potassium. These are things that we use if we are elite, or even your average Joe who is testing themselves in the gym. We need we need more of said minerals, for example, than the average person who is just walking up their local park, you know, early in the morning or late in the evening. A big fan of of electrolytes, creatine, most definitely, if you want to increase muscle protein synthesis. I used to supplement with things like leucine, um, around five grams prior to a meal, at least three, as we said earlier, but they come in five grams group, so I just use about five grams. Um. Uh citrulline. Malate was another compound that I used to use, a potent vasodilator, and that helped with blood flow and recovery. And there are lots of other levers that you can pull. I mean, where does this stop? I mean, there's there's lots of others that you can add in, uh, depending on what your goals are. But creatine for sure Electrolytes, I think those too, if you are looking to perform at a top level, or at least to be the best version of yourself, those would be my top one and two. 

Speaker 1

[00.56.50]

 Brilliant answer, Richard. As always, thank you everybody for for watching on YouTube. It's been an absolute pleasure to answer as many questions as possible. Uh, Susan, they're saying primary priming absolutely did not work for me. Quite the opposite. That's exactly right, Susan. Um, it doesn't work for everybody. And that's why we don't give broad brush advice. Uh, not it's not a one size fits all. Um, so we'll see you over at school. If you're already a member of school, it's going to be great. I know Susan is already a member, so she hopefully be there for the extra 30 minutes. I have got copies of all the questions that we didn't cover. Uh, but we like to give you value for money and actually cover the questions properly rather than saying, well, there's a video on my channel. Have a look at that video. We try to answer it live because you bother to turn up, you bother to type the question. So thanks everyone on YouTube. If we don't see you in the school community either in the next 30 minutes or on Monday at 8 p.m., we'll see you here 7 p.m. next Sunday. Thanks a lot. 

Speaker 2

[00.57.51]

 Thank you all. Good evening. 

Speaker 1

[00.57.53]

 Great, Richard. I'll see you over in school.